ICTJohnboy Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said: 2 hours ago, dee_62 said: yes, is the EEA not a half-in/half out type arrangement where we would be subject to all the rules but have no voting power (or MEPs etc)? With England voting to take back control though - (particularly with immigration) there's no getting away from a hard border if we have EU freedom of movement. ETA These are obviously some of the concerns that the SNP will be thinking long and hard on. I always get the feeling that the Indy vote is split on the matter of all things EU, it'll be difficult to gauge how many votes could go in a different direction depending on our future relationship with the EU. The Norway model has not done Norway any harm Norway managed their oil resources much more sensibly than the UK managed Scotland's oil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 20 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Norway managed their oil resources much more sensibly than the UK managed Scotland's oil. I don't think the UK government can be blamed for the fact we don't have much oil. As far as I'm aware, it is due to run out soon, and probably already has on 4 or 5 occasions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 yes, is the EEA not a half-in/half out type arrangement where we would be subject to all the rules but have no voting power (or MEPs etc)?-Id rather full EU membership with the discretion to have a bilateral movement agreement with England, I think its something the EU would consider, which would actually be very good for Scotland, its ports and our financial sector. It takes negotiation but isn’t as far fetched as the yoons would have us believe, the EU are reasonable despite what Rees Mogg would have you believe. With England voting to take back control though - (particularly with immigration) there's no getting away from a hard border if we have EU freedom of movement.-See my point re EEA membership and a bilateral trade agreement with England, there would be no need for a hard border. This article ( https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norway-sweden-border/ ) explains what i’d prefer to see, Norway and Sweden were once in a union, grew apart in that sense but now work very well together, this is EU/Non Eu trade/movement and could easily work for us and England. Scotland would absolutely flourish in this arrangement!!! ETA These are obviously some of the concerns that the SNP will be thinking long and hard on. I always get the feeling that the Indy vote is split on the matter of all things EU, it'll be difficult to gauge how many votes could go in a different direction depending on our future relationship with the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee_62 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Appreciate your thoughts there and they highlight my lack of in depth knowledge of the whole set up. I still struggle to see how England wouldn’t want a hard border for people movement given the rhetoric of “controlling our borders” coming for the Brexiteers. If we are in a Norway type arrangement, that means freedom of movement between us and the EU. A subsequent bilateral deal between us and England would leave the possibility of EU migrants continuing to travel into England via Scottish airports unchecked. Exactly what they don’t want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 3 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said: Norway managed their oil resources much more sensibly than the UK managed Scotland's oil. The UK gov did waste the oil revenues. Squandered the same way as the proceeds from privatisation of all the major industries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 The UK gov did waste the oil revenues. Squandered the same way as the proceeds from privatisation of all the major industries. And Brown fucked the gold reserves 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 The UK is in self destruct mode. Soon we will face a hard Brexit with massive job losses and food and medicine shortages. We surely can add another 5 or 6 percent onto a Yes vote minimum amid that chaos to take us over the line 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 The UK is in self destruct mode. Soon we will face a hard Brexit with massive job losses and food and medicine shortages. We surely can add another 5 or 6 percent onto a Yes vote minimum amid that chaos to take us over the lineOr it's shoulder to the wheel Churchill propaganda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 4 hours ago, dee_62 said: Appreciate your thoughts there and they highlight my lack of in depth knowledge of the whole set up. I still struggle to see how England wouldn’t want a hard border for people movement given the rhetoric of “controlling our borders” coming for the Brexiteers. If we are in a Norway type arrangement, that means freedom of movement between us and the EU. A subsequent bilateral deal between us and England would leave the possibility of EU migrants continuing to travel into England via Scottish airports unchecked. Exactly what they don’t want. No, what they don't want is people free to live there. You're talking about people being in England illegally technically. That's not as big an issue as a million poles able to live and work there. To them anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 8 hours ago, Lurkst said: In that case it might be an idea to wait and see what happens in Ireland?... Easy.....North joins South 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Easy.....North joins SouthProper order, parity restored. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee_62 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 No, what they don't want is people free to live there. You're talking about people being in England illegally technically. That's not as big an issue as a million poles able to live and work there. To them anyway.Take your point but “to them” (many of them anyway) any foreigner is an illegal immigrant who scrounges, gets benefits and uses up our precious NHS resources. Do you not read the Daily Mail? Guaranteed, an independent Scotland with an open door policy will get the blame for future immigration problems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 54 minutes ago, dee_62 said: Take your point but “to them” (many of them anyway) any foreigner is an illegal immigrant who scrounges, gets benefits and uses up our precious NHS resources. Do you not read the Daily Mail? Guaranteed, an independent Scotland with an open door policy will get the blame for future immigration problems. Yeh...we will have to think of something to stop them English desperados trying to enter the EU illegally. We will build a wall folks...a great big fuckin wall, right along the border. Sure I heard somewhere else was gonna do this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, dee_62 said: Take your point but “to them” (many of them anyway) any foreigner is an illegal immigrant who scrounges, gets benefits and uses up our precious NHS resources. Do you not read the Daily Mail? Guaranteed, an independent Scotland with an open door policy will get the blame for future immigration problems. Yeah but people there illegally can't claim benefits or work so it's less of an issue. I agree it would be portrayed like that most likely but it wouldn't present a big problem politically. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 https://www.ft.com/content/995ad5c8-09c5-11e8-839d-41ca06376bf2 North Sea oil tax haul gushes to £1bn as crude recovers You jocks would only waste it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossbill Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 18 hours ago, cyderspaceman said: The UK gov did waste the oil revenues. Squandered the same way as the proceeds from privatisation of all the major industries. They were only squandered if you consider that they should have been used for the good of the public. For the people in power, I imagine that does not even register on the scale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 8 hours ago, Crossbill said: They were only squandered if you consider that they should have been used for the good of the public. For the people in power, I imagine that does not even register on the scale. Exactly.....Norway has used its oil for the benefit of Norway.....The UK has used its oil for the benefit of shareholders in companies who couldn't give a shite about the country. That was Tory AND LABOUR!!! policy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Re the border trade issue, it will be apparent how that will work in Ireland before we are much older. If the UK maintains an open border for the flow of goods (and services? ), Scotland will demand same. If not given, Indyref2 whether granted or not. If the Irish border closes, I think the EU will pour cash into the Republic to prevent them feeling the pain more than the restof Europe. So business will be compensated for loss of trade. Ireland didn't make this fiasco. Similarly, the UK will pony up cash to the North to avoid collapse on a greater scale than the rest of us. In the end, it may be so expensive that either Ireland unites or the border is opened. Whatever the outcome, I can't see how Scotland can't come out of this without a right to self determine. Once a trade agreement is reached - and there will be one eventually because not to have one is mental - we can work with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 When you look at the age group polling, in an ideal world we could wait 10-15 years and scoosh it, easily over 65% of the vote.Sadly with the brexit pish f**k knows if it will be worth while going Independent in 15 years after the Tories are finished with us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 It will always be worthwhile gaining independence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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