When will indyref2 happen?

[Lurkst]

4 hours ago, Antlion said:

As monarchists love to bang on about how Elizabeth Windsor is descended via a circuitous route from a line of crackpots, why not insist that an independent Scotland would invite the Stuart claimant to the throne? They’d have no cause for complaint. They claim to believe in bloodlines being important.

I'm no fan of the monarchy but Liz is a direct descendant of the Stuarts.

 

[Enigma]

I'm no fan of the monarchy but Liz is a direct descendant of the Stuarts.

 

 

William, if he becomes King, would be the first to descend from Charles II.

[Antlion]

7 hours ago, Lurkst said:

I'm no fan of the monarchy but Liz is a direct descendant of the Stuarts.

 

There are directer ones. If that kind of nonsense mattered as much as the monarchists trumpet, they really ought to be getting the obscure Franz, duke of Bavaria, on the throne. The stupidity of that kind of displays the stupidity of championing direct descent.

[Lurkst]

20 minutes ago, Antlion said:

There are directer ones. If that kind of nonsense mattered as much as the monarchists trumpet, they really ought to be getting the obscure Franz, duke of Bavaria, on the throne. The stupidity of that kind of displays the stupidity of championing direct descent.

Well yes I doubt many people would buy into that now.  A bit different 300 years ago when the priority was keeping a Catholic off the throne.

 

[Antlion]

2 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

Well yes I doubt many people would buy into that now.  A bit different 300 years ago when the priority was keeping a Catholic off the throne.

 

You’d think, but a surprising number buy into an infant being groomed to be their Head of State because of who his distant ancestors were.  Presumably they could be convinced of anything.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Antlion

[John Lambies Doos]

f**k that. She must have a clunge like a vandalised bus seat by now.

Pics or GTF

[Colkitto]

Has to be Prince Michael of Albany..

 

[NotThePars]

There are directer ones. If that kind of nonsense mattered as much as the monarchists trumpet, they really ought to be getting the obscure Franz, duke of Bavaria, on the throne. The stupidity of that kind of displays the stupidity of championing direct descent.

We could really do independence justice if we recognise his succession and invade England after Brexit. They’ll be malnourished from the blockaded ports anyway. There’s a minority of Americans who recognise Franz’s dominion over them as well. We’ll have the Thirteen Colonies back in no time. Rule Caledonia.

[doulikefish]

We could really do independence justice if we recognise his succession and invade England after Brexit. They’ll be malnourished from the blockaded ports anyway. There’s a minority of Americans who recognise Franz’s dominion over them as well. We’ll have the Thirteen Colonies back in no time. Rule Caledonia.

Im having Georgia as Savannah is probably my favourite city in the colonies

[dee_62]

The closer we get to the "no deal" Brexit, it surely then becomes a case of pros and cons of aligning ourselves to rUK or aligning ourselves to the EU.  There may be enough horror stories in the media and from the WM govt itself on how badly things are expected to go after we leave the EU, that the SNP could use all that to their benefit.

The economic worry is then the size of the potential loss as a trading partner the rUk is to us compared to what we could re-coup via the EU.  It'll likely be as difficult for many business with offices on both sides of the border to sort themselves out as it is proving for all those with EU operations currently.  (the Scottish govt 2016 figures show rUK takes 60% of our exports and 1000s of jobs will rely on that trade)  That's a key area to address.

Timing is crucial - many companies currently considering relocating to the EU may be unlikely to then move again 2 or 3 years later to an Independent Scotland, whereas if they had a choice now, Scotland may be more appealing than Ireland or mainland Europe.

Many of the issues that we are taking great delight in highlighting as part of Brexit, could also be set against an Indy option.  eg  the need for a hard border leading to traffic backlogs on the M74 or A1 resulting in food shortages from English/Welsh suppliers for our major supermarkets and others.

Apologies if that's been covered before, but that's my twopence in.

[git-intae-thum]

5 minutes ago, dee_62 said:

The closer we get to the "no deal" Brexit, it surely then becomes a case of pros and cons of aligning ourselves to rUK or aligning ourselves to the EU.  There may be enough horror stories in the media and from the WM govt itself on how badly things are expected to go after we leave the EU, that the SNP could use all that to their benefit.

The economic worry is then the size of the potential loss as a trading partner the rUk is to us compared to what we could re-coup via the EU.  It'll likely be as difficult for many business with offices on both sides of the border to sort themselves out as it is proving for all those with EU operations currently.  (the Scottish govt 2016 figures show rUK takes 60% of our exports and 1000s of jobs will rely on that trade)  That's a key area to address.

Timing is crucial - many companies currently considering relocating to the EU may be unlikely to then move again 2 or 3 years later to an Independent Scotland, whereas if they had a choice now, Scotland may be more appealing than Ireland or mainland Europe.

Many of the issues that we are taking great delight in highlighting as part of Brexit, could also be set against an Indy option.  eg  the need for a hard border leading to traffic backlogs on the M74 or A1 resulting in food shortages from English/Welsh suppliers for our major supermarkets and others.

Apologies if that's been covered before, but that's my twopence in.

Its the English choice to isolate themselves. We should not be dragged into the wilderness with them without a say.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The closer we get to the "no deal" Brexit, it surely then becomes a case of pros and cons of aligning ourselves to rUK or aligning ourselves to the EU.  There may be enough horror stories in the media and from the WM govt itself on how badly things are expected to go after we leave the EU, that the SNP could use all that to their benefit.
The economic worry is then the size of the potential loss as a trading partner the rUk is to us compared to what we could re-coup via the EU.  It'll likely be as difficult for many business with offices on both sides of the border to sort themselves out as it is proving for all those with EU operations currently.  (the Scottish govt 2016 figures show rUK takes 60% of our exports and 1000s of jobs will rely on that trade)  That's a key area to address.
Timing is crucial - many companies currently considering relocating to the EU may be unlikely to then move again 2 or 3 years later to an Independent Scotland, whereas if they had a choice now, Scotland may be more appealing than Ireland or mainland Europe.
Many of the issues that we are taking great delight in highlighting as part of Brexit, could also be set against an Indy option.  eg  the need for a hard border leading to traffic backlogs on the M74 or A1 resulting in food shortages from English/Welsh suppliers for our major supermarkets and others.
Apologies if that's been covered before, but that's my twopence in.

The way round this is for an indy Scotland to go for EEA admission we have trade with the EU and our own bilateral agreement with them down there, which might actually be beneficial to Scotland. Perhaps though the EU would allow Eng-Sco movement of trade as a way of allowing Scotland to join and make it as frictionless as possible, despite the efforts of the pro brexit brigade to discredit the EU they really would be reasonable, particularly with us as we actually have resources they want unlike England.

[git-intae-thum]

2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The way round this is for an indy Scotland to go for EEA admission we have trade with the EU and our own bilateral agreement with them down there, which might actually be beneficial to Scotland. Perhaps though the EU would allow Eng-Sco movement of trade as a way of allowing Scotland to join and make it as frictionless as possible, despite the efforts of the pro brexit brigade to discredit the EU they really would be reasonable, particularly with us as we actually have resources they want unlike England.

A Norway type deal

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

A Norway type deal

Id rather EU membership but overall that may truly give the ‘best of both worlds’ we could have a free trade bilateral agreement with England/UK and free trade/movement etc with the EU, we’d be mad not to see that as a better option than staying in the UK post brexit/WTO.

[dee_62]

8 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Id rather EU membership but overall that may truly give the ‘best of both worlds’ we could have a free trade bilateral agreement with England/UK and free trade/movement etc with the EU, we’d be mad not to see that as a better option than staying in the UK post brexit/WTO.

yes, is the EEA not a half-in/half out type arrangement where we would be subject to all the rules but have no voting power (or MEPs etc)?

With England voting to take back control though - (particularly with immigration) there's no getting away from a hard border if we have EU freedom of movement.

ETA  These are obviously some of the concerns that the SNP will be thinking long and hard on.  I always get the feeling that the Indy vote is split on the matter of all things EU, it'll be difficult to gauge how many votes could go in a different direction depending on our future relationship with the EU.

Edited July 24, 2018 by dee_62

[NotThePars]

11 minutes ago, dee_62 said:

yes, is the EEA not a half-in/half out type arrangement where we would be subject to all the rules but have no voting power (or MEPs etc)?

With England voting to take back control though - (particularly with immigration) there's no getting away from a hard border if we have EU freedom of movement.

ETA  These are obviously some of the concerns that the SNP will be thinking long and hard on.  I always get the feeling that the Indy vote is split on the matter of all things EU, it'll be difficult to gauge how many votes could go in a different direction depending on our future relationship with the EU.

wow

[dee_62]

13 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

wow

shit...schoolboy error...apologies all round.  Would it have been better with this?

 

[John Lambies Doos]

yes, is the EEA not a half-in/half out type arrangement where we would be subject to all the rules but have no voting power (or MEPs etc)?
With England voting to take back control though - (particularly with immigration) there's no getting away from a hard border if we have EU freedom of movement.
ETA  These are obviously some of the concerns that the SNP will be thinking long and hard on.  I always get the feeling that the Indy vote is split on the matter of all things EU, it'll be difficult to gauge how many votes could go in a different direction depending on our future relationship with the EU.

The Norway model has not done Norway any harm

[dee_62]

25 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

1 hour ago, dee_62 said:

yes, is the EEA not a half-in/half out type arrangement where we would be subject to all the rules but have no voting power (or MEPs etc)?
With England voting to take back control though - (particularly with immigration) there's no getting away from a hard border if we have EU freedom of movement.
ETA  These are obviously some of the concerns that the SNP will be thinking long and hard on.  I always get the feeling that the Indy vote is split on the matter of all things EU, it'll be difficult to gauge how many votes could go in a different direction depending on our future relationship with the EU.

The Norway model has not done Norway any harm

I guess the fact that we have had these thing in the past makes our move to that position slightly less appealing for some.

[Lurkst]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The way round this is for an indy Scotland to go for EEA admission we have trade with the EU and our own bilateral agreement with them down there, which might actually be beneficial to Scotland. Perhaps though the EU would allow Eng-Sco movement of trade as a way of allowing Scotland to join and make it as frictionless as possible, despite the efforts of the pro brexit brigade to discredit the EU they really would be reasonable, particularly with us as we actually have resources they want unlike England.

In that case it might be an idea to wait and see what happens in Ireland?...