Guest Jedi Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Will need to take these in different points as there is a lot there.. Handling of the pandemic: Enabling elderly patients to be sent back out of hospitals to care homes which led to a significant further deaths. Continually banging on that schools were 'entirely' safe and (in order to court popularity) keeping them fully open for the most part (no matter what) despite high case numbers there. The number of missed cancer cases which occurred across Scotland and again led to further deaths in order to prioritise Covid above all else (obviously Covid was 'the' priority, but all other areas of health and social care suffered too much as a result The 'plan' after Independence is not just to 'get back in the EU' (with the admittance that that will take some time) but slashing public services to the bone in order to pursue an austerity agenda for 'up to 10 years'..'that' sends shivers down my spine. Dividing public sector workers against each other...Nursed (good) teachers (bad) when it comes to pay disputes in order to court public popularity. Banging on about zip, nada, nothing left in the kitty and then 'magically' finding 550 million for a social care proposal. If you don't think they have encouraged aggression against No supporters since 2014 on Social Media and in.public am.not sure which society you have been living in since then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Jedi said: And as said in a Holyrood election I would go Labour 1 and Alba 2 That seems a strange choice, given that Labour are likely to win more seats on the list than in constituencies in Lothian. Assuming that Labour & the Tories both win 1 constituency seat each again, Labour would only require an extra 1906 list votes (or for the Tories to lose 1906 list votes) to pick up an extra list MP. Alba would need to increase their vote by approximately 13,500 to even have a chance at a list seat. As I've suggested before, you might want to think things through before you type. Your voting strategy might even allow an extra Tory to slither in. Surely you don't want that... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jedi said: I very much supported them under Salmond yes. Since then: Copying up to big business and chasing big money, with a willingness to sell off Scottish assets in firesales to multinationals (BP/Shell et al). Unwillingness to use tax powers to try and take more from those more able to afford it. Various factors around the 'handling' of the pandemic. Pursuing and publicising measures such as 'free' bikes, laptops, baby boxes the, the GRA etc..not saying there is anything 'wrong' with these but they are pushed to the front to votes and cover up the record on public services The 'proposals' for the first 10 years after Independence which sends a shudder up spine Dividing public sector workers against each other Control freakery from the top which often shuts out the views of members And being much more aggressive in attitude towards anyone who isn't on message..didnt see that so much pre-2014. Are just some of the 'things' which have happened to the SNP compared to the past (there are more). My support changed around 3 or 4 years ago. Is this a different Salmond from the one who cosied up with RBS and the other banks? Edited January 4, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 6 hours ago, Jedi said: The Labour Party has many flaws, as imo does the SNP. You are never going to vote Labour which I get, and I am never going to vote SNP, though obviously I have done in the past for a long time, and as said am said to see what they have become compared to the party of before. Labour under Corbyn was much closer to the founding values of the party, but as we know (sadly) the 'realpolitik' of winning elections across the UK means that a more genuinely left-wing and radical manifesto will fail against the Tory media. Ultimately winning elections is still important in order to implement policies which you believe can make people's lives better. I still think a Labour govt (wish it had been Corbyn's) but now the 'Starmer version' will still improve lives compared to the Tories Let's be honest, it wasn't just the Tory media that was gunning for Corbyn, it was an anormous chunk of the PLP, from day one. And there's quite a gulf between 'radical left-wing' and the kind of identikit, generic Tony Blair cosplayers that the Labour Party seem to think they need. The Tories and the Tory media have abslutely played a masterstroke is crushing Labour between a rightward moving edge of the Overton window on the left and the Tory party on the right. And that's something I'm genuinely sad to see but the fact that they haven't had the wit to see what was happening or the vision to combat it is an indictment on them as much as anything else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jedi said: And as said in a Holyrood election I would go Labour 1 and Alba 2 You'd go for a 3rd placed party and an 8th??? (genuinely don't know) placed party in a 1 horse race? Good luck with that. Edited January 4, 2023 by StellarHibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 36 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: Let's be honest, it wasn't just the Tory media that was gunning for Corbyn, it was an anormous chunk of the PLP, from day one. And there's quite a gulf between 'radical left-wing' and the kind of identikit, generic Tony Blair cosplayers that the Labour Party seem to think they need. The Tories and the Tory media have abslutely played a masterstroke is crushing Labour between a rightward moving edge of the Overton window on the left and the Tory party on the right. And that's something I'm genuinely sad to see but the fact that they haven't had the wit to see what was happening or the vision to combat it is an indictment on them as much as anything else. Which of: Nationalising railways Properly increasing the minimum wage Strengthening Trade Union rights Tackling domestic violence Cracking down on tax avoidance loopholes Massive investment in green jobs and industry Cracking down on landlords rent abuse Increasing foreign aid Windfall tax on energy profits Is 'identikit' Tory and 'right-wing'? Genuinely interested 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 35 minutes ago, StellarHibee said: You'd go for a 3rd placed party and an 8th??? (genuinely don't know) placed party in a 1 horse race? Good luck with that. Labour in some polls in Scotland running at closer to 30% and opening up a healthy gap on the Tories, so 3rd last time, 2nd now. Alba, yes, clearly in the doldrums at the moment. Whether their support increases following the failure of the 'one' horse in the race to get 50% at the GE or indeed at the next Holyrood election remains to be seen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 42 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Is this a different Salmond from the one who cosied up with RBS and the other banks? Salmond was certainly happy to talk up the arc of prosperity before the financial crash and of course as a former employee of RBS was friendly towards them. I don't recall him selling off assets to multinationals or proposing to cut public services in order to boost private industry though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jedi said: Whether their support increases following the failure of the 'one' horse in the race to get 50% at the GE Considering the clear 50%+ support for independence in the polls and the denial from the democracy denying parliament in London, the one horse party will inevitably get 50%+ and that's despite the best efforts of the yoon mouth piece media doing everything to try and thwart it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Jedi said: Which of: Nationalising railways Properly increasing the minimum wage Strengthening Trade Union rights Tackling domestic violence Cracking down on tax avoidance loopholes Massive investment in green jobs and industry Cracking down on landlords rent abuse Increasing foreign aid Windfall tax on energy profits Is 'identikit' Tory and 'right-wing'? Genuinely interested Are these in a Labour manifesto? I haven't seen Keir mention pretty much any of those tbh Edited January 4, 2023 by Benjamin_Nevis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 12 minutes ago, Jedi said: Which of: Nationalising railways Properly increasing the minimum wage Strengthening Trade Union rights Tackling domestic violence Cracking down on tax avoidance loopholes Massive investment in green jobs and industry Cracking down on landlords rent abuse Increasing foreign aid Windfall tax on energy profits Is 'identikit' Tory and 'right-wing'? Genuinely interested Given the fact Labour hasn’t properly supported the current strikes and the fact there are so many landlords within the Labour Party, I can’t see any of those actually happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 53 minutes ago, Jedi said: Which of: Nationalising railways Properly increasing the minimum wage Strengthening Trade Union rights Tackling domestic violence Cracking down on tax avoidance loopholes Massive investment in green jobs and industry Cracking down on landlords rent abuse Increasing foreign aid Windfall tax on energy profits Is 'identikit' Tory and 'right-wing'? Genuinely interested I never used the phrase 'identikit Tory' or even 'right-wing' in my post so I've no idea what you're trying to even say here. Absolutely nothing i said suggested that all Labour policies or soundbites are right wing and writing up a sarcy little PR piece doesn't change that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 49 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said: Are these in a Labour manifesto? I haven't seen Keir mention pretty much any of those tbh Are you suggesting that some shadow cabinet nobody talking about maybe linking the minimum wage to the cost of living in front of two men and a dog at some conference isn't the dawning of a glorious new socialist age? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: I never used the phrase 'identikit Tory' or even 'right-wing' in my post so I've no idea what you're trying to even say here. Absolutely nothing i said suggested that all Labour policies or soundbites are right wing and writing up a sarcy little PR piece doesn't change that. 'Crushing the Labour Party between a rightward moving edge of the Overton window on the left and the Tory party on the right'? sounds rather like an accusation of 'right-wing' policies, which by definition, would position them as next to the Tories As we know, Labour like every other party, haven't published a manifesto for a GE which is 2 years away yet. (Although the SNP are obviously floating a 'single issue' one). However each of these policies were passed at the most recent Conference and have been cited by Starmer in various speeches and articles since, so it would become more difficult for him to 'ignore' Conference, as is always said. High confidence on the SNP getting over 50% of the vote in 2 years time again, I see.If they do, all well and good..negotiate Independence. Still don't see it though. Edited January 4, 2023 by Jedi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jedi said: 'Crushing the Labour Party between a rightward moving edge of the Overton window on the left and the Tory party on the right'? sounds rather like an accusation of 'right-wing' policies, which by definition, would position them as next to the Tories It doesn't at all. It's essentially what you yourself have said in a few other posts - Labour members trying to kneecap Corbyn because they think someone that far to the left can't win an election, being 'soft' on EU reintegration and potentially dealing with the SNP but keeping it quiet for fear of losing nothern gammon. I'm just suggesting this is something that's been done at least somewhat consciously, and very effectively, and Labour have had next to no answer to it. Quote As we know, Labour like every other party, haven't published a manifesto for a GE which is 2 years away yet. (Although the SNP are obviously floating a 'single issue' one). However each of these policies were passed at the most recent Conference and have been cited by Starmer in various speeches and articles since, so it would become more difficult for him to 'ignore' Conference, as is always said. High confidence on the SNP getting over 50% of the vote in 2 years time again, I see.If they do, all well and good..negotiate Independence. Still don't see it though. I think it would be ludicrously easy for Starmer to ignore things like "cracking down on landlord rent abuse" whatever that actually ends up meaning. I'm not going to try and paint the things you're talking about as shit or right wing. It's a childish attitude to take. if i was English and living in England, I'd be voting Labour whilst still not being a particularly big fan of Starmer or the Labour Party. I'm not making any claim about what % of the vote the SNP will get at the next GE. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: It doesn't at all. It's essentially what you yourself have said in a few other posts - Labour members trying to kneecap Corbyn because they think someone that far to the left can't win an election, being 'soft' on EU reintegration and potentially dealing with the SNP but keeping it quiet for fear of losing nothern gammon. I'm just suggesting this is something that's been done at least somewhat consciously, and very effectively, and Labour have had next to no answer to it. I think it would be ludicrously easy for Starmer to ignore things like "cracking down on landlord rent abuse" whatever that actually ends up meaning. I'm not going to try and paint the things you're talking about as shit or right wing. It's a childish attitude to take. if i was English and living in England, I'd be voting Labour whilst still not being a particularly big fan of Starmer or the Labour Party. I'm not making any claim about what % of the vote the SNP will get at the next GE. All fair points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Surely no sensible person would ever have believed anything Sturgeon says? Its not going to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Nice choice piece of wording in big bold letters from the tory times there. But there's nothing there of any substance to suggest that 2024 won't be a defacto referendum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Shockerooni. Sturgeon really is the Scottish Martin McGuinness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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