When will indyref2 happen?

[williemillersmoustache]

3 minutes ago, edinabear said:

Exactly the same stereotype and stats can be applied to the SNP. Only 30% of the electorate voted for SNP at the last election 

You appear to have come into this conversation on more than one occassion now, blissfully unencumbered by the nescessary faculties to meaningfully join in. It is said that God loves a trier, but I don't.

[The_Kincardine]

7 minutes ago, edinabear said:

Exactly the same stereotype and stats can be applied to the SNP. Only 30% of the electorate voted for SNP at the last election 

 

2 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

You appear to have come into this conversation on more than one occassion now, blissfully unencumbered by the nescessary faculties to meaningfully join in. It is said that God loves a trier, but I don't.

Except he's within a couple of % points of being right.

[williemillersmoustache]

Just now, The_Kincardine said:

 

Except he's within a couple of % points of being right.

It's also spectaculalry irrelevant to the point I was making but you can get a  for a good try too if you like.

[HandsomeRichard]

34 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Still an obsession with Starmer's comments in one area of policy, immigration. 

Let's have a look at the most recent Social Attitudes survey (2017), with attitudes towards immigration across the UK:

In Scotland, 46% of people believe immigration is good for the economy In England, 47% do so. 17% in Scotland think immigration is 'bad' for the economy' as opposed to 16% in England.

In Scotland 43% of people believe that immigration enriches British culture, while in England the figure is.....43%

Source: https://natcen.ac.uk/our-research/research/do-scotland-and-england-wales-have-different-views-about-immigration/

So, effectively no difference in outlook between Scotland and England on this question. Because a majority in Scotland voted to 'Remain', does not equate to different views on this. The Brexit vote was not only down to immigration. For many, yes, it was, but in there were economic considerations as well. 

Will one area of Labour policy and distasteful comments (and they are), by the leader of the party on immigration, mean that the Sturg is a shoe in to crash through the 50% barrier? Or will the prospect of Labour winning the GE this time, push their vote up from it's current 31% in Scotland? Time will tell.

Spot on.

The claim that attitudes dramatically change as soon as we reach Berwick is one peddled by those who want to create division.

[Guest Jedi]

4 minutes ago, renton said:

You are missing the point. It doesn't matter that there is no difference between attitudes in Scotland vs. England. It matters that Scotland has a party willing to say it's a good thing and willing to pursue a policy that will enable it. England has Starmer whoring himself to every racist little Englander that he will be beholden to when in power.

Labour are a fucking Sham. It's not just immigration, its running to the right on Brexit and away from free movement, it's accepting a half buried, fucked up economy as the norm. One area of Labour policy? You talk as if its just a minor cross on an otherwise fine laundry list of socialism. The gap between what you think Labour should be, and what they are actually saying and planning on doing is so vast you can't even see it.

It's not a 'fine laundry list' of socialism, but in most areas-improving working rights, reversing Tory anti-trade union legislation, properly funding public services, making a serious attempt to tackle the environmental crisis with green policies, improving the rights of women subject to domestic abuse, ending the non-dom loopholes, ending the charity status of private schools, fixing childcare. it is certainly a considerable improvement on the Tories. 'Making Brexit work' again...is not 'running to the right'. They are still putting forward policies, which, I believe will benefit more people across the UK than they harm. 

Meanwhile the SNP get out clause continues to be that 'we can't do anything' in Scotland until we are Independent, we can't address public sector pay, we can't reverse the 4000 hospital beds we have cut over the past few years, or restore the thousands of college places we have cut, or address the sharp rise in inequality in Scotland. You can't ask us about our 15 year record in govt because our hands are entirely tied. What do you expect us to do?

 

[The_Kincardine]

5 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

It's also spectaculalry irrelevant to the point I was making but you can get a  for a good try too if you like.

You manufactured a terrible point, were called out on it, and used the term 'Englandshire'.

We're all embarrassed for you.

[Wee Bully]

7 minutes ago, HandsomeRichard said:

Spot on.

The claim that attitudes dramatically change as soon as we reach Berwick is one peddled by those who want to create division.

A brilliant first contribution.  I look forward to many more.

[sophia]

24 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Brexit/Scexit.  Same boorish twats recycling the same tawdry arguments.

Incorrect and abusive to boot.

I've just this minute remembered another ever so slight difference and since the year that Dickie Valentine with the Stargazers were at No1 with Finger Of Suspicion England has voted plenty in a way Scotland never got near to.

 

[williemillersmoustache]

24 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You manufactured a terrible point, were called out on it, and used the term 'Englandshire'.

We're all embarrassed for you.

That's big talk from a guy with your history of late night excursions to the cleaning cupboard.

We tend not to interact these days, let's not ruin a good thing.

Edited December 1, 2022 by williemillersmoustache

[jakedee]

apart from Brexit 

Or voting for Tory's.

[The_Kincardine]

33 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Brexit/Scexit.  Same boorish twats recycling the same tawdry arguments.

 

3 minutes ago, sophia said:

Incorrect and abusive to boot.

Comparing Brexit to Scexit is abusive.  Just give me a moment to laugh like a drain.

[The_Kincardine]

6 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

That's big talk from a guy with your history of late night excusions to the cleaning cupboard.

We tend not to interact these days, let's not ruin a good thing.

You often refer to me but don't quote me.  I can see why.  You use words like 'excusions'.

[Guest Jedi]

I'll say this for the SNP, they aren't daft.

In order to deflect from their record in government, a strategy of 'vote for us (at any election now, be it Westminster or Holyrood), and we will negotiate Independence' is a sound one. It keeps them appearing to be a 'protest' movement, rather than a party of government. It gets them out of having to answer about the NHS, Education, Social Services, the Environment, the Economy, workers pay and conditions, inequality, defence, or any number of issues, as none of it can be sorted 'without' Independence.

By doing this, they guarantee themselves 40%+ of the vote and get to keep their snouts in the trough of ministerial and MP's salaries as that is a shoe in for a majority of seats at Westminster and Holyrood. At the same time they don't really have to 'govern' Scotland, as it's all a 'waiting game'....like I said, not daft.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Jedi

[sophia]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

Comparing Brexit to Scexit is abusive.  Just give me a moment to laugh like a drain.

It is and thanks for agreeing.

However, I was referring to your gratuitous language. I'd like to think you're actually better than that.

[williemillersmoustache]

4 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You often refer to me but don't quote me.  I can see why.  You use words like 'excusions'.

Occassionally obliquely referring to something, isn't an invitation for it to get in touch.

[Honest Saints Fan]

6 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

He's fair got his dander up, though.  I had a browse at Twitter and he was giving Bunter a kicking:

 

"Swinging back to the Lib Dems"

[Billy Jean King]

Spot on.
The claim that attitudes dramatically change as soon as we reach Berwick is one peddled by those who want to create division.

New alias alert, new alias alert, new alias alert......

[The_Kincardine]

23 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I'll say this for the SNP, they aren't daft.

In order to deflect from their record in government, a strategy of 'vote for us (at any election now, be it Westminster or Holyrood), and we will negotiate Independence' is a sound one. It keeps them appearing to be a 'protest' movement, rather than a party of government. It gets them out of having to answer about the NHS, Education, Social Services, the Environment, the Economy, workers pay and conditions, inequality, defence, or any number of issues, as none of it can be sorted 'without' Independence.

By doing this, they guarantee themselves 40%+ of the vote and get to keep their snouts in the trough of ministerial and MP's salaries as that is a shoe in for a majority of seats at Westminster and Holyrood. At the same time they don't really have to 'govern' Scotland, as it's all a 'waiting game'....like I said, not daft.

That's the gist of it.  Excellent summary.

The bit you missed is that the clapping seals - as exemplified by the posters on these threads - don't give a f**k as long as they have something to girn about.

[edinabear]

1 hour ago, williemillersmoustache said:

You appear to have come into this conversation on more than one occassion now, blissfully unencumbered by the nescessary faculties to meaningfully join in. It is said that God loves a trier, but I don't.

Sevco

[edinabear]

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