When will indyref2 happen?

[Guest Jedi]

5 minutes ago, DrewDon said:

Did this happen before or after you became a candidate, election agent and everything else you apparently were for the SNP?

 It was before, as that date was 1984. Didn't mean that I approved of the actions in 1979.

I know that you are only really 'allowed' to be an ex-Labour voter, and not an ex-SNP one, but still....

[williemillersmoustache]

It was a totally different SNP, he went to a different school, you wouldn't know him.

[jakedee]

Whilst i agree with this, surely its going to be the exact same or even worse with the break up of Scotland and england? Scotland will want to have their cake and eat whilst the rest of the UK will want to make it as hard as possible to discourage the likes of Wales from doing it. It is the exact same

It will be a choice for the rUK Govt whether they want to end freedom of movement with Scotland, or have a similar agreement as they do with RoI.
The result of the negotiations with the rUK, then Scotlands decision on it's relationship with the EU, will, depending on that decision, I agree, may cause a problem with the England/Scotland border.
Again though, that'll be a choice for the rUK , whether it wants to continue with it's isolationist policies.

[Antlion]

30 minutes ago, Aufc said:

Whilst i agree with this, surely its going to be the exact same or even worse with the break up of Scotland and england? Scotland will want to have their cake and eat whilst the rest of the UK will want to make it as hard as possible to discourage the likes of Wales from doing it. It is the exact same

You want us to vote to be harmed out of fear we might harm ourselves more?

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, Johnny Martin said:

 

Scotland can establish it's independence if it's people want it.

Democracy is being upheld, not suppressed.  We're only 8 years after the last referendum, and there's nothing to suggest any sustained majority to split up the country, but plenty evidence of the contrary.

The only ones trying to suppress democracy are those who want to rerun a referendum on a settled issue.

When did we vote on being part of an anti-EU member state?

[Brother Blades]

1 hour ago, DiegoDiego said:

 

Anyone deciding how to vote on independence because of whoever happens to be in power at Westminster or Holyrood at that moment is incredibly short sighted.

I’d largely agree with this, slight caveat is that at any given time the likelihood of the Westminster govt being of the same taint as Scotland voted for is very slim. 

[KingRocketman II]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Don't think you really want to go to 1979, and the SNP putting Thatcher into power.....not the last time they would cosy up to them of course.

Yellow Tories then, and Yellow Tories now (economically) 

you were arguing how similar Labour and SNP immigration policies were the other week 

[lichtgilphead]

31 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Their 'preference' was still for Thatcher

You'll need to explain that in more detail. Having no confidence in Jim Callaghan does not equal "preferring" Thatcher.

.

31 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Alex Salmond was more than happy to enjoy a close working relationship with Annabel Gouldie between 2007-11.

That's why his first budget passed by 64 votes to 1, with Labour bravely abstaining, even on their own amendments. Instead of opposing the SNP proposals. Labour were complicit.

 

36 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Also on Brexit, they abstained on Ken Clarke's proposal for a much softer deal which would have meant staying in the Single Market, and that was only defeated by 6 votes.

That would be ex-Conservative minister Ken Clark, yes? Why was it OK for Labour to vote with him?

BTW, if anyone should avoid talking about cozying up to the Tories., it's Labour. Better Together anyone?

[jakedee]

Why would SNP voters suddenly 'switch' to Labour, Tories, Liberals, Greens (or whatever other 'new' parties might be set up)?

A lot of current SNP voters do not vote for the parties you list above (I include myself) BECAUSE they are pro Union parties. After independence that will not be an issue, and decisions would be made on policies put forward.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

It was a totally different SNP, he went to a different school, you wouldn't know him.

He was a Tartan Tory - now he's a Red Tory.

[Dundee Hibernian]

3 hours ago, Aufc said:

I think the issue is that the "better together" campaign just need to refer to the GERS which mentions Scotland get more spending that they put in. This is a report prepared by Scottish government officials. So its easy for them to say "Scotland cant afford to be independent". 

The GERS figures aren't prepared by Scottish Government officials: that's the responsibility of the Office for National Statistics. The ONS is headquartered in Newport, Wales, with three sub offices spread throughout England.

GERS as a measure can be criticised as a flawed examination, most commonly as the expenditure displayed is overstated to a huge degree. First published in 1992, the annual report has been used and abused by both sides of the Independence debate to skew their arguments.

[Brother Blades]

50 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Except again, with 45% plus of the vote tied up, and having just 'delivered' Independence, it is very much a programme for '5 years of government' in an Independent Scotland (as proposed by the SNP) which will be delivered by that first parliament....other parties wouldn't get a look in. In a Scottish GE, 45% plus, as it does now, guarantees a high majority of seats. Of course they would handle negotiations, as the sitting Scottish govt during an interim period prior to 'Independence Day'.

The idea of the SNP not being in power anytime soon, in an Independent Scotland, is, I still think, fanciful. 

Why would SNP voters suddenly 'switch' to Labour, Tories, Liberals, Greens (or whatever other 'new' parties might be set up)?

In the same way that Labour dominated Scottish politics for the best part of 50 years, the SNP on achieving Independence would already have been in power for 20 years, (assuming that they win over 50% in the de facto GE in 2024 and get Independence, plus the negotiation period).....add at least a further 2 terms of office in the newly Independent country in there, and they will be up to 30 plus years in power.

If that’s what the Scottish electorate vote for, then so be it. If people fancy the completely discredited Tory Lite that is the SLP then bash on. And as for any Labour fanboy to attempt to bash the SNP for (allegedly) getting into bed with Tories over 40 years ago when you guys jumped straight into bed with them, just 8 years ago is laughable to be honest. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Except again, with 45% plus of the vote tied up, and having just 'delivered' Independence, it is very much a programme for '5 years of government' in an Independent Scotland (as proposed by the SNP) which will be delivered by that first parliament....other parties wouldn't get a look in. In a Scottish GE, 45% plus, as it does now, guarantees a high majority of seats. Of course they would handle negotiations, as the sitting Scottish govt during an interim period prior to 'Independence Day'.

The idea of the SNP not being in power anytime soon, in an Independent Scotland, is, I still think, fanciful. 

Why would SNP voters suddenly 'switch' to Labour, Tories, Liberals, Greens (or whatever other 'new' parties might be set up)?

In the same way that Labour dominated Scottish politics for the best part of 50 years, the SNP on achieving Independence would already have been in power for 20 years, (assuming that they win over 50% in the de facto GE in 2024 and get Independence, plus the negotiation period).....add at least a further 2 terms of office in the newly Independent country in there, and they will be up to 30 plus years in power.

Whats clear here, beyond any reasonable doubt, is that you and all the rest of the britnat tory (red or blue) enablers are not rattled in any way, no sir, you guys are not rattled at all.

[Granny Danger]

So if the next GE is going to be a de facto Referendum where does that leave all the supposedly YES posters who have said they won’t vote SNP?

[Bad Wolf]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

Don't think you really want to go to 1979, and the SNP putting Thatcher into power.....not the last time they would cosy up to them of course.

Yellow Tories then, and Yellow Tories now (economically) 

Labour lefties: "don't talk about Blair! It's no fair, that was 25 years ago."

Labour righties: "don't talk about Corbyn! It's no fair, that was 3 years ago."

 

But talking about 1979, instead of the last 15 years of fairly successful SNP governent, is just fine. Apparently.

[Bad Wolf]

2 hours ago, Jeff Venom said:

Has anyone ever heard from a unionist, in government or otherwise, the specific benefits the rUK get from being in union with Scotland?

No. As they're lying c***s whose only interest in Scotland is having somewhere to park the UK(RIP)'s "independent" nucular deterrent so it can continue to pretend to be a world power.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Bad Wolf

[git-intae-thum]

3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

So if the next GE is going to be a de facto Referendum where does that leave all the supposedly YES posters who have said they won’t vote SNP?

That ones on Sturgeon. Time to put country before party.

[Bad Wolf]

1 hour ago, jakedee said:

 

 

It will be a choice for the rUK Govt whether they want to end freedom of movement with Scotland, or have a similar agreement as they do with RoI.
The result of the negotiations with the rUK, then Scotlands decision on it's relationship with the EU, will, depending on that decision, I agree, may cause a problem with the England/Scotland border.
Again though, that'll be a choice for the rUK , whether it wants to continue with it's isolationist policies.

 

I'd prefer the Scottish government to make the choice to end freedom of movement with rUK, as the majority of them are thick b*****ds who have not the slightest iota of respect for Scottish law, as their behaviour during lockdown demonstrated on a daily basis. 

[Dundee Hibernian]

12 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

So if the next GE is going to be a de facto Referendum where does that leave all the supposedly YES posters who have said they won’t vote SNP?

Angus Robertson of the SNP has said Independence voters could choose ALBA, while the Greens are also available. 

[Granny Danger]

6 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Angus Robertson of the SNP has said Independence voters could choose ALBA, while the Greens are also available. 

I totally agree.  A vote for any political party that supports the view that the GE is a de facto Referendum would count.

Hopefully the posters in question will state their intent.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Granny Danger