When will indyref2 happen?

[TapothehullDee]

2 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

3. UK nationalists will now have to define an alternative democratic route for the people of Scotland to express their will.

Did it 8 years ago, were 41 years in EU without a say. Another 33 years to next Scottish neverendum. 

[Dan Steele]

18 minutes ago, TapothehullDee said:

We can't have the tail wagging the dog.

But we're a Union of Equals, are we not?

[KirkieRR]

6 minutes ago, TapothehullDee said:

were 41 years in EU without a say

If only there had been European Parliamentary Elections, eh?

 

10 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

Two important things have now been established beyond doubt:

1- Scotland is not a colony with the right to self-determination.

2- A Scottish election cannot deliver a mandate for an independence referendum.

So, we can't change anything and anything we are or become has to be imposed from outside - and you think this is a good thing?

[FalkirkBairn2021]

11 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

3. UK nationalists will now have to define an alternative democratic route for the people of Scotland to express their will.

Think this is right. The court decision seems reasonable but it does mean there has to be an alternative, whether a General Election majority triggering a ref or something else. 

Can't just be 'nah, sorry'

[ICTJohnboy]

3 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

But we're a Union of Equals, are we not?

 

Obviously not now - as decreed by the Supreme Court.

[Dan Steele]

1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Obviously not now - as decreed by the Supreme Court.

Yep, we can put that idea well and truly in the bin. 

[Double Jack D]

24 minutes ago, Johnny Martin said:

Great result from the Supreme Court.

Two important things have now been established beyond doubt:

1- Scotland is not a colony with the right to self-determination.

2- A Scottish election cannot deliver a mandate for an independence referendum.

Not sure it can be considered a great result if a country cannot establish its own independence via a democratic event contained within its own borders.

History has shown that you cannot suppress democracy without consequences, I sincerely hope we can ensure the future path of our country, both UK and Scotland, can keep us on a democratic path that resolves this.

The status quo isn't tenable.

[Jeff Venom]

Genuinely not surprised that the resident anti-independence brigade think that while the result was probably expected, that the present position is fundamentally a good thing; you can be anti-independence and still understand that having no democratic route to independence is an absolute rid neck in a modern western 'democracy'. 

[ford prefect]

People celebrating the fact that Scotland is not allowed to govern itself properly and want us to be beholden to the whims of an increasingly chaotic, xenophobic and racist government. Sad times. All for a flag. 

[Deanburn Dave]

2 hours ago, BFTD said:

Are you saying that the Liberal Democrats didn't think Jo Swinson was going to be the UK's next Prime Minister?  

When she was asked about a possible coalition Jo stuck to the "We are going to win" and "I will be the next prime minister" line.  Everyone knew it was a bonkers claim but she didn't shift from her position.

[TapothehullDee]

21 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

If only there had been European Parliamentary Elections, eh?

 

So, we can't change anything and anything we are or become has to be imposed from outside - and you think this is a good thing?

An in out vote, like the lovers of the 2014 vote want again. We were 41 years in the EU without an in- out vote. 

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

Only had 1 in out vote in 315 years. Must be due another by now.

[Jeff Venom]

9 minutes ago, TapothehullDee said:

An in out vote, like the lovers of the 2014 vote want again. We were 41 years in the EU without an in- out vote. 

And why was that, specifically? 

[Guest Jedi]

Even in the SNP's best ever year of 2015, they didn't quite reach 50% of the vote, and that was on the back of a deeply unpopular Labour Party (worked with the Tories etc). There was huge momentum behind the SNP then, with their massive upsurge in membership,

Circumstances are different now. They have 45% of the vote pretty much baked in, whatever they do. However, to push that over the 50% line in the next GE looks very unlikely. 

I would imagine that Sturgeon's tactic in the leaders debates will be to try to bounce Starmer into agreeing to work with the SNP to lock the Tories out. He will hold the line that he won't work with the SNP though. Also the Tories will hammer away at the line that voting Labour lets NS dictate the next UK govt. However, that was a one trick pony back in 2015 when the Tories weren't as unpopular as they are now, so don't see that sticking either.

To enter the GE on a single ticket, I think, will therefore backfire. 40-45% will get them the most seats in Scotland, but what then? Especially with a more likely Lab majority govt.

Onto the next Holyrood election, and it all begins again.....vote for us, and we will pass a bill for a Referendum.....but a UK govt says no...and it starts again.....does it go back to the Supreme Court for another go? 

[Richey Edwards]

 

14 minutes ago, Deanburn Dave said:

When she was asked about a possible coalition Jo stuck to the "We are going to win" and "I will be the next prime minister" line.  Everyone knew it was a bonkers claim but she didn't shift from her position.

To be fair she would have probably done a better job than the three Conservative PMs that have been in office since. That isn't exactly a high bar though.

[carpetmonster]

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Even in the SNP's best ever year of 2015, they didn't quite reach 50% of the vote, and that was on the back of a deeply unpopular Labour Party (worked with the Tories etc). There was huge momentum behind the SNP then, with their massive upsurge in membership,

Circumstances are different now. 

In what way? You’re still working with the Tories. 

[101]

4 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Even in the SNP's best ever year of 2015, they didn't quite reach 50% of the vote, and that was on the back of a deeply unpopular Labour Party

Yes but since then there has been a major shift in UK politics.

As we all know the biggest single electorate are those that stay at home, if the SNP can get people out then they will win. They also have a much more positive campaign to run particularly with the energy crisis ongoing that could win the support of poorer people who we know don't tend to vote as must as more affluent people.

The sticking point for this will be the nonsense of the voter ID, if the GEcis the first election with it is will hamper any party who is attracting the normally disenfranchised voter.

[git-intae-thum]

18 minutes ago, TapothehullDee said:

An in out vote, like the lovers of the 2014 vote want again. We were 41 years in the EU without an in- out vote. 

And then a government was elected who had a commitment to hold a referendum and a referendum was had.......that's democracy.

Scotland is in a situation where it has now repeatedly voted for a referendum and been consistently ignored. Now it is told there is effectively no legal democratic route to decide its own future.

What happened today has just increased the power on the UK constitutional pressure cooker. It is going to have to find a vent. I think most reasonable UK nationalists recognise that. That is why there will be a political route open up.

[Detournement]

If the SNP continue to play by rules set in London independence is totally out of the question. They will though because it's extremely lucrative for them.

[Abdul_Latif]

11 minutes ago, Jedi said:

To enter the GE on a single ticket, I think, will therefore backfire. 40-45% will get them the most seats in Scotland, but what then? Especially with a more likely Lab majority govt.

Onto the next Holyrood election, and it all begins again.....vote for us, and we will pass a bill for a Referendum.....but a UK govt says no...and it starts again.....does it go back to the Supreme Court for another go? 

This is my greatest concern with the whole thing.

Their mandate to be based on a single promise, which they can’t actually deliver, but they then claim massive support for all of their nannying bullshit.