When will indyref2 happen?

[BFTD]

Will this finally be the weekend where Kenneth spends his computer hour advocating violent revolution?

Might trigger the family safety restrictions, right enough.

[SandyCromarty]

I copied the following from a Daily Mail comments page where every comment was anti Scottish Independence;

I'm not really sure what she hopes to achieve. Scotland is far better off being part of the UK. They can't afford to financially govern or run themselves and I can't see the EU accepting them as they really have nothing to offer. I still think England should have a referendum to see if we want to keep them..... I say no

This is a typical english reaction from the little englander daily mail readership in that we depend financially on them for survival, if we are a financial burden to the english why don't they let us go? I would love them to have a referendum on Scottish Independence.

Our Oil and Gas gives them influence and revenue as no other European country, apart from Norway, has these resources on their doorstep, imagine what the likes of Germany would give to have that resources, if we didn't have that we would be rid of them and the equality and union togetherness shite that westminster spouts.

[Florentine_Pogen]

I await with bated breath for the 'Statement of Nonsensical Guff' from political heavyweight DRoss.

[jamamafegan]

Dream on.

He’s always going to say that though. He wants a Labour majority so he’s hardly going to say that he’ll do deals with other parties. Would Starmer turn down the opportunity to finally oust the Conservatives by refusing a coalition deal with the SNP? He would be a fool to do so. It would be game over for him.

[KirkieRR]

4 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

This is a typical english reaction from the little englander daily mail

Typical Little Englander Daily Mail, perhaps, but harsh on the English per se. The most fervent indy campaigners in my street are English.

[Lex]

4 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

 

He’s always going to say that though. He wants a Labour majority so he’s hardly going to say that he’ll do deals with other parties. Would Starmer turn down the opportunity to finally oust the Conservatives by refusing a coalition deal with the SNP? He would be a fool to do so. It would be game over for him.

 

Yes. If he had won the most seats without a majority he would go to Lib Dems/Greens and/or run a minority government.  If he did any kind of deal with the SNP it would finish him and Labour in England for a generation.  He knows this of course, which is why he is red lining it, in all circumstances.

[Granny Danger]

The only way forward that I can see is for the SNP to hold the balance of power at the next GE and use that situation to force another Referendum.  If they hold the balance of power and don’t use that tactic then they’re fucked.

[renton]

1 minute ago, Lex said:

Yes. If he had won the most seats without a majority he would go to Lib Dems/Greens and/or run a minority government.  If he did any kind of deal with the SNP it would finish him and Labour in England for a generation.  He knows this of course, which is why he is red lining it, in all circumstances.

Why would it necessarily finish Labour in England? Would the majority of them really care if a deal with the SNP led to the dissolution of the UK?

[Donathan]

What’s absolutely clear is that is that Scotland isn’t going to become an independent country (or hold a referendum on the matter) without the consent of the UK Government, either via a section 30 order like last time or by Westminster actively voting to organise a referendum.

 

I agree with the posters who view a hung Parliament scenario with the SNP as kingmakers being the most likely scenario. The “de facto referendum” route will be widely ignored and the UK government would have obligation to legislate for the dissolution of the Union even if the SNP polled > 50% of the vote and won most or all seats in Scotland, however if there’s a scenario where one party (probably Labour) are short of an overall majority, then the SNP could agree to enter into a coalition (or looser agreement) to allow Starmer to govern in return for him agreeing the section 30.

 

Where I think Sturgeon runs out of road is that I think Labour will get a healthy majority after the next GE and not need to rely on the SNP, so then it’s another five years of inactivity on independence and I don’t know that she has the will or even the support to carry the movement through that. 

[Lex]

2 minutes ago, renton said:

Why would it necessarily finish Labour in England? Would the majority of them really care if a deal with the SNP led to the dissolution of the UK?

Yep. The SNP is not popular in England. That famous poster of Salmond with Milliband in his pocket destroyed Labour and him in 2015 and won it for Cameron. Starmer seems to have learned that lesson. No deal with the SNP, under any circumstances. He could not be clearer. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Lex

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, renton said:

Why would it necessarily finish Labour in England? Would the majority of them really care if a deal with the SNP led to the dissolution of the UK?

Most of England’s population are patriotic Brits.

 

Losing Scotland would lead to widespread unpopularity of whichever PM was responsible for it. 

[Central Belt Caley]

56 minutes ago, btb said:

I don't know many people who have changed their minds on Indy since 2014 and any demographic change will be slow and not guaranteed as yesterday's angry young person is tommorow's worried pensioner.

I voted No in 2014 as a naive 18 year old, ever since the Brexit vote I’ve been 100% yes. Many of my mates are the exact same

[philyerboots]

[KirkieRR]

2 minutes ago, Donathan said:

What’s absolutely clear is that is that Scotland isn’t going to become an independent country (or hold a referendum on the matter) without the consent of the UK Government

Aye, laddie, that condescending attiture will go down really well here,,,

 

2 minutes ago, Lex said:

Starmer seems to have learned that lesson. No deal with the SNP, under any circumstances. He could not be clearer. 

A week is a long time in politics. If the SNP, or the idea of independence, is THAT unpopular in England, then we really are very different countries and ought to separate. As for Sirkier 'Make Brexit Work' Starmer, his problem is that on Scotland he takes advice from the very people who took Labour from complacent Scottish overlords to the 1-MP limpers.

[ford prefect]

Yeah let's vote  Labour the party of the people and who gave us wonderful things such as tuition fees. I think the snp are tired now and need a spell either as a minority administration even with green support, Or in opposition, So let's see a labour Tory and Lin Dem coalition run us. Might refresh some people's memories.

Edited November 23, 2022 by ford prefect
Typos!

[renton]

7 minutes ago, Lex said:

Yep. The SNP is not popular in England. That famous poster of Salmond with Milliband in his pocket destroyed Labour and him in 2015 and won it for Cameron. Starmer seems to have learned that lesson. No deal with the SNP, under any circumstances. He could not be clearer. 

Suspect the Bacon Sandwich had more impact tbh.

[Donathan]

2 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

Aye, laddie, that condescending attiture will go down really well here,,,

 

A week is a long time in politics. If the SNP, or the idea of independence, is THAT unpopular in England, then we really are very different countries and ought to separate. As for Sirkier 'Make Brexit Work' Starmer, his problem is that on Scotland he takes advice from the very people who took Labour from complacent Scottish overlords to the 1-MP limpers.

 

I am stating a fact which is quite clear to anyone who’s been following the situation.

 

There is no legal route for Scotland to become an independent country without the involvement of the UK Government in the decision. Scotland is not independent due to the Act of Union 1707, and only further legislation to repeal or override that act can change that fact. The only body with the legal right to implement such legislation is the UK Parliament.

 

[Juanhourjoe]

1 hour ago, alta-pete said:

 

Had a giggle about how the Judge went over the ‘colonial’ or ‘oppressed’ route to self determination. Reckon that’ll be her next kick at the baw…

On that basis. I'd assume the gaidhealtachd could declare independence anytime, and have no objections from the courts. 

[KirkieRR]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

I am stating a fact which is quite clear to anyone who’s been following the situation.

 

When you pat us on the head and then tell us you're merely stating facts, impudent Jocko, it'll go down really really really well...

[SandyCromarty]

Just now, Central Belt Caley said:

I voted No in 2014 as a naive 18 year old, ever since the Brexit vote I’ve been 100% yes. Many of my mates are the exact same

And here is the difference from that earlier Ref, it's blindingly obvious.

And now we hear the tories are going cap in hand crawling to the EU to see if they can find some wriggle room to get back in.

A lot of leave voters based their leave decision on immigration in england and now the tories are saying loudly that they want immigrants back to fill jobs that were emptied when the immigrants went back to their own countries after Brexit.

You couldn't fuckin make this up.

The incompetence of the tories is unfuckinbelievable.

Is it any wonder that right minded Scots want Independence and away from these clowns.