When will indyref2 happen?

[williemillersmoustache]

The UK is a prison not a union.  

Not the ideal outcome but a DISASTROUS CATASTROPHE FOR THE UNION*

if the express/daily heil were pro indy. 

[sparky88]

Can just about hear the champagne corks popping in Bute House. 

[Comrie]

Well, that's the next SNP election campaign sorted then.

[alta-pete]

I think it the correct outcome. The Scottish Parliament is always subordinate to Westminster however unpalatable that may be for some. 

NS has done a grand job in spinning it that they two are somehow equal but that is just not the case. 

Had a giggle about how the Judge went over the ‘colonial’ or ‘oppressed’ route to self determination. Reckon that’ll be her next kick at the baw…

[Suspect Device]

So what are the plans now?

 

 

[Clown Job]

Bring on the GE

[Bully Wee Villa]

5 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

Bring on the GE

How does that help? The SNP already has nearly all the Scottish seats but still can't do what it wants. Even if the SNP win all the Scottish seats neither Starmer nor whoever is running the Tory Party that week will back an independence referendum.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Bully Wee Villa

[Paco]

I’ve always seen the GE stuff as Sturgeon’s exit plan to be honest. If they don’t hit 50% she resigns in a similar manner to Salmond having “lost”, if they do hit 50% then after a few weeks or months of moaning she resigns in protest because there’s no legal route through.

Sturgeon and the current frontbench SNP aren’t willing to go the Catalonia route. Which for me is the correct call, but I don’t see Westminster just suddenly buckling to a 50.4% SNP vote in the next election.

Today has changed little in my eyes. The only possible avenue remains the SNP getting lucky holding the balance of power for a UK Government. A dreadful state of affairs but reality.

[sparky88]

6 minutes ago, Comrie said:

Well, that's the next SNP election campaign sorted then.

The folk outraged by the ruling are already voting SNP.

[Brother Blades]

Angus Brendan McNeil speculating that perhaps calling a hollyrood election on the date of the proposed referendum…. 

[sparky88]

8 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

I think it the correct outcome. The Scottish Parliament is always subordinate to Westminster however unpalatable that may be for some. 

NS has done a grand job in spinning it that they two are somehow equal but that is just not the case. 

Had a giggle about how the Judge went over the ‘colonial’ or ‘oppressed’ route to self determination. Reckon that’ll be her next kick at the baw…

SNP rhetoric around a referendum has been as if a decisive majority of the public want independence like 60/40. The polls simply do not show that. Hence why sturgeon will be relieved this morning. 

[Abdul_Latif]

12 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

At least there is an answer, and probably the one everyone was planning for.   Now to use the next GE as a de facto referendum.  

Massive supporter of independence, but I will not vote SNP under any circumstance.

[williemillersmoustache]

Already seeing commentators saying the UK government/ Unionists will be pleased.  

Not sure why, the Uk government expended most of its effort trying to prevent a ruling being made at all. Sure there will be raspers rasping delight but the smarter ones will not be pleased to have the constitutional reality now confirmed. That this isn't a voluntary union as there are no democratic means of exiting.

Interesting times. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by williemillersmoustache

[ICTChris]

I have no qualification to say this but it seemed like the likely outcome. I would imagine that the SNP have understood this and have planned their response - the ‘de facto’ referendum spoken about earlier.

The difficulty of this is that it isn’t a de facto referendum and the SNP could be caught out. Five years ago the SNP lost a third of their seats in a General Election and came close to losing more. One of the significant factors on this was SNP voters staying at home. You’d think a de facto referendum would motivate SNP/Yes voters but there is also the possibility that people might be sick of it, they might think “it’s not Boris, Labour will be OK”. Also you might get votes going to Labour if they look like winning - I think the SNP lost quite a few late switchers to Corbyn in 2017 when it became clear he wasn’t a complete vote loser. Also, I think the Tory vote outside rural areas in Scotland will completely collapse and a significant part will go to Labour.

One thing that is good is that it seems very unlikely there will be a ‘wildcat’ referendum with no legal standing which would be a very bad thing all round IMO.

[The_Kincardine]

Probably the easiest case the SC will ever hear and the outcome was entirely predictable.

The real bonus was the SNP's cack-handed intervention being slapped down.  The self determination argument has always been nonsensical and it was good to hear the scathing note in Lord Reed's voice as he dismissed it.

[scottsdad]

So this is the status quo for the forseeable. SNP winning most Scottish seats, governing in Scotland but unable to move forward with independence. 

I can't see this changing any time soon.

[btb]

I don't know many people who have changed their minds on Indy since 2014 and any demographic change will be slow and not guaranteed as yesterday's angry young person is tommorow's worried pensioner.
I'm a Yes in any Indy vote but my view is the if the Yoons had cojones they would go for a second referendum in the next Westminster parliament - in these circumstances I think NO would still win and kill off Indy hopes for a generation.

Politically I think this is a good outcome for those that want Independence, I'd rather see a bedraggled Unionist movement dragged into a second referendum than a confident one arguing a positive case, something that vanished this morning.

[Dan Steele]

Equal enough to be in a Union but just not equal enough to leave. 

[Donathan]

22 minutes ago, Frank Grimes said:

Which will never happen, therefore no democratic route as they will block it from now until the end of time 

So the Parliament which represents those affected by the issue is allowed to vote on whether it happens or not?

 

Sounds exactly like democracy to me. 

[Paco]

Ian Blackford and Nicola Sturgeon have also called for a General Election twice in the last four months, if you needed much more evidence they don’t mean the ‘election is indyref’ stuff.