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When will indyref2 happen?


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Indyref2  

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On 13/10/2022 at 12:23, Jedi said:

Interesting to see that Dorothy Bain herself, doesn't appear to believe in her own arguments, or indeed in the 'competence' of the Scottish govt to hold a Referendum at present...Some quotes from her this week:

1) “I could not clear the bill as appended. I do not have the necessary confidence that the bill is within the competence of the Scottish parliament
2) “A referendum on a matter which is ultra vires, is also ultra vires” (so beyond the powers of the Scottish parliament then, in Bain's own opinion)
3) “It is a peculiarity that the Scotland Act refers to the Union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England. Those states no longer exist, having been replaced by the United Kingdom”…(two hours later) “Nothing turns on the peculiarity. The union is a full political and economic union between what were two previously independent countries.”
4) “There is clearly a cogent argument that the Scottish Parliament does not have the competence to pass this bill”

Don't see the Supreme Court route ending well when the SNP's own appointed lawyer doesn't actually believe that the case should or could win.

At least appoint a person that can fight the case. FFS

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On 13/10/2022 at 14:12, Jedi said:

As Robin McAlpine points out, during the (proposed) transition from using sterling, to setting up a Scottish Central Bank and issuing Scottish currency (however long that takes), the SG would have to cover any funding gap from taxation. This is because any funds which are in the Central Bank (while it is using sterling but building up reserves), would quite quickly be swallowed up on public spending (all of health, education, and yes, penshuunns et al). Once the Central Bank funds have been depleted the gap in resources would have to be covered by taxation.....possible, but clearly taxes would have to go up.

Once the Scottish currency comes on-line, it has to build up a respectable image to be floated on international markets, establish an exchange rate etc. That is more difficult to do if taxation has had to be pushed up.

So.....much better option would be to have a Scottish currency ready to run from day 1 of Independence. This is definitely manageable, given that there would probably be a 2-3 year period of negotiations following a Yes vote.....but 'only' if the SNP drop their idea to continue using sterling in the first instance. 

Sterlingisation will be a disaster for an Independent Scotland. We need our own currency on day 1.

But try explaining that to thickos. 

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On 13/10/2022 at 15:28, SandyCromarty said:

And why not, it certainly would be better tied to the third biggest worlds economy currency than to a failing pound.

Fact is to join the EU the present Scottish National Investment Bank, (set up two years ago by the SNP), would become the Scottish Central Bank and then Scotland would move forward to satisfy The Copenhagen Criteria for joining, and yes in the interim we would adopt a pound based currency as had Ireand prior to joining the EU.

It's all tres simple though the unionists will come up with their usual shite which is best ignored as they know that Independence will happen.

Thing is because of the idiotic chaos caused by the little englanders empirical rule brittania brexit the EU will welcome us with open arms, leaving england to enjoy the fantastic trade deals they say they have made since brexit and which in reality have never happened and now businesses are failing dramatically.

The UK is in a financial abyss and facing ruin thanks to a corrupt and incompetent westminster government.

Has the Scottish National Investment Bank been set up in the way you say it is though, as a future Scottish Central bank? 

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20 hours ago, renton said:

Craig Murray is a fucking moon howler. This is, according to Andrew Tickell (an actual lawyer) the jist of it:

 

Where is your evidence that Craig Murray is a moon howler? It is not in that article you quoted.  

Edited by Kenneth840
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23 minutes ago, Kenneth840 said:

Sterlingisation will be a disaster for an Independent Scotland. We need our own currency on day 1.

But try explaining that to thickos. 

That must be your life's struggle, stay strong.

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8 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

I would certainly agree with you , there are so many variations of this Britain tag which evolved into the United Kingdom tag.

The 1707 Act of Union however was ratified as The Kingdom of Great Britain, which to me is a grandiose empirical term awarded as england stretched it's self importance on trade and eventually an empire. As I recall The United Kingdom term came into being in the early 1800's when Ireland was commandeered  by westminster.

As long as Scotland maintain's the two main areas of a sovereign state Law and Church, and until recently, Banking, Scotland remain's a Sovereign State within a UK/Britain framework. 

We have our own clearly defined culture and england has Morris Dancing.

 

We need to get away from domestic law, move to international law.

But more importantly, assert this as political, not legal. 

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12 minutes ago, Kenneth840 said:

You are a problem.  Why the f**k would you want to do that?  

Take your arse out of your head and breath. 

Yasss, was thinking it was about time for Kenneth's weekly hour on the computer!

200w.gif

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3 minutes ago, Kenneth840 said:

Has the Scottish National Investment Bank been set up in the way you say it is though, as a future Scottish Central bank? 

What other purpose other than a future Central Bank would it serve. Nothing has been mentioned obviously as to the Banks purpose, it is owned by The Scottish Ministers so there's a hint. 

'The Bank is wholly owned by the Scottish Ministers on behalf of the people of Scotland. It is a public limited company and has been established to operate commercially, and operationally independent from The Scottish Government'.

The party has been open in it's statement that on Independence one important step is to rejoin the EU, the steps required are clearly set up and outlined in the Copenhagen Criteria, part of that Criteria is that the country applying for membership must have a functioning market economy, with that it is obvious that we must have in place a transitionary currency and that will be a Scottish Pound  backed by the Scottish Central Bank.

That currency will be a temporary measure until we are accepted into the EU and we adopt the Euro, bear in mind that Lithuania and Latvia broke away from the Russian Rouble and set up the Litas and Lats currencies respectively as part of their Copenhagen Criteria EU application, both now have the Euro as their official currency.

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How about this simplistic argument.

"The Scottish people were given the chance to vote on their independence and rejected it, PROBABLY on the basis that they were warned by the UK government that they would be out of the EU and would suffer financially, commercially and culturally from this. 

Within 2 years the UK government took the UK out of the EU. 

The Scottish people deserve another referendum. "

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On 27/08/2022 at 08:42, Duries Air Freshener said:

Your passport clearly states 'British Citizen'.

 

9 hours ago, BudBudBud said:

 

'Britain' and 'United Kingdom' are used interchangeably on a regular basis, hence the presence of 'British Citizen' on our passports.

Such similar posting styles for two completely different posters.

When can we look forward to pictures of BBB's dog on the "Show us your dogs thread"?

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So the plan is to retain sterling for a few years, then..float a Scottish currency...then give that time to achieve market stability...then join the Euro, and finally...be back in the EU?

Assuming a Ref was held and won, next year. A rough estimate for a negotiation period is 2 to 3 years to sort out assets and liabilities ..then there is a period of using sterling, until the Central Bank builds up sufficient reserves of foreign currency etc...then there is floating the Scot currency and letting it settle down..then eventually being in a stable enough position to join the Euro .

So, the back in the EU could maybe be by what..2040? If all that went through.

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34 minutes ago, Jedi said:

So the plan is to retain sterling for a few years, then..float a Scottish currency...then give that time to achieve market stability...then join the Euro, and finally...be back in the EU?

Assuming a Ref was held and won, next year. A rough estimate for a negotiation period is 2 to 3 years to sort out assets and liabilities ..then there is a period of using sterling, until the Central Bank builds up sufficient reserves of foreign currency etc...then there is floating the Scot currency and letting it settle down..then eventually being in a stable enough position to join the Euro .

So, the back in the EU could maybe be by what..2040? If all that went through.

You can be in the EU without using the Euro.

Croatia.

You are misinformed or willfully misrepresenting.

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8 minutes ago, sophia said:

You can be in the EU without using the Euro.

Croatia.

You are misinformed or willfully misrepresenting.

Croatia, Denmark or even the fucking UK if people need exhibit A.

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I think theres no argument on another referendum, theres a valid reason and thats UK leaving EU when Scotland massively voted to stay. 

If a Yes vote was successful and at earliest now an indy2 would be in 2024 I think. Then a referendum would need to be held within Scotland to vote on rejoining EU. That could be done quite quickly though so within 2025. Then its just a matter of how the EU would accept Scotland, does it have to start from scratch in applying or is some speeded up process going to be allowed. Im not sure either way but I think we should plan as an independent country for being out of EU a while and I dont think thats a bad thing, it will all sort itself out with time after a Yes vote however long it takes.

Edited by BigDoddyKane
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1 hour ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I think theres no argument on another referendum, theres a valid reason and thats UK leaving EU when Scotland massively voted to stay. 

If a Yes vote was successful and at earliest now an indy2 would be in 2024 I think. Then a referendum would need to be held within Scotland to vote on rejoining EU. That could be done quite quickly though so within 2025. Then its just a matter of how the EU would accept Scotland, does it have to start from scratch in applying or is some speeded up process going to be allowed. Im not sure either way but I think we should plan as an independent country for being out of EU a while and I dont think thats a bad thing, it will all sort itself out with time after a Yes vote however long it takes.

Putting aside the question of Scotland’s independence, are you really wanting to join the failing  EU?

 

 

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