When will indyref2 happen?

[williemillersmoustache]

14 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

When is the supreme court hearing for this again? Start of October?

The 11th says Google. 

 

[TheScarf]

3 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

The 11th says Google. 

 

TYB.  Surprised this hasn't been starting to bubble to the surface yet. Given it's in just over a fortnight.

[williemillersmoustache]

9 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

TYB.  Surprised this hasn't been starting to bubble to the surface yet. Given it's in just over a fortnight.

The news cycle is too short. I assume we'll get some preparatory express and mail led hysteria, shortly. Something along the lines of:

SNP putting LIVES AT RISK with DANGEROUS SHAM referendums LIKE PUTIN in the Donbas, says government INSIDER. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

But what currency will you use?

Answer please.

Why would anyone bother? You'll simply refuse to accept it and make up some tedious story instead

[carpetmonster]

4 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

But what currency will you use?

Answer please.

I had suggested the UK may be reduced to bartering in rat pelts around the time of the Brexit referendum - if Scotland wanted to take them on its own, and England has a colder than average winter, then their utility should have them soaring above the pound pretty sharpish. 

[Dan Steele]

2 hours ago, Day of the Lords said:

Why would anyone bother? You'll simply refuse to accept it and make up some tedious story instead

"I was on the beach this morning. I got talking to the guy selling buckets and spades. He told me last year he was only selling buckets and with this round of tax cuts he'll soon be able to add sunhats to his stock. Stop the doom and gloom talk".

[Granny Danger]

7 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

"I was on the beach this morning. I got talking to the guy selling buckets and spades. He told me last year he was only selling buckets and with this round of tax cuts he'll soon be able to add sunhats to his stock. Stop the doom and gloom talk".

Forfar beach?  Yet they say all this talk of global warming and rising sea levels is nonsense.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Granny Danger

[Dan Steele]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

Forfar beach?  Yet they say all this talk of global warning and rising seas levels is nonsense.

Nah, quotes to suggest a DPB story!

[strichener]

21 hours ago, oaksoft said:

@Dawson Park Boy may be wrong, right or somewhere in between in his views on pensions but there isn't a single person anywhere who knows for a fact how pensions would be funded under an independent Scotland.

It is clearly an area requiring answers and not one which requires several pages of arrogant responses from Yes supporters who frankly can't possibly have a clue about how all this would work in reality given that even Sturgeon doesn't.

Arrogant Yes voters claiming to have the answers to every potential issue won't win over a single No voter to the cause. A lot of this is going to be a shot in the dark if we go for independence. Pretending otherwise is just daft.

FFS has Brexit taught us nothing about what levels of shit can hit the fan when two hostile parties divorce?

Nobody was suggesting that they knew how pensions would be funded under an independent Scotland.  The question was around who the liability sat with and quite clearly that is with the UK government.  In the event of a negotiated settlement upon independence it would be absolute folly for iScotland to assume this liability without the Uk contributing to it (as they have agreed with the EU for their pensions) since the UK would be liable to pay these regardless of Scotland's independence.  For example, if you are currently short of entitlement you can make class 2 contributions to "pay up years" which is also a payment in expectation of a return.

The Pensions Act 2014, lays out the basis for a state pension and the Contributions and Benefits Act details the basis for which contributions are means of entitlement to a pension.  Country of residence is neither an impediment nor a requirement for entitlement to the State Pension.   

I would think any talk of issues with pensions on independence is just daft.  But hey what would I know, being just an arrogant Yes voter.

Edited September 26, 2022 by strichener

[strichener]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Where are you getting this level of confidence from?

As for the Pensions Act, that becomes irrelevant post-independence because it's a UK act and we'll have left the UK.

There's nothing clear about anything post-independence. There's no precedent for it. Not even Brexit comes close. It's a complete leap of faith.

That's not to say we shouldn't go for it but there's still way too much arrogance and too few answers on the Yes side.

 

You clearly can't read then.  In my case, I already qualify for a UK pension when I reach pensionable age as I have made the requisite number of years contributions.  Are you suggesting that if I move to the USA the day before Independence then I will be entitled to my pension from the UK government but if I stay in Scotland I'll somehow have to rely on the Scottish Government.  It is an absolutely illogical position and anyone arguing this point is not doing so in good faith or with any modicum of common sense.

As for precedent then there absolutely is - every foreign national that has worked in the UK for 35 years and have paid the required amount of NI are entitled to a UK pension.

[lichtgilphead]

5 minutes ago, strichener said:

As for precedent then there absolutely is - every foreign national that has worked in the UK for 35 years and have paid the required amount of NI are entitled to a UK pension.

I think I mentioned my partner's American aunt before - the one that taught in the UK for her entire working life? She's taking us out for dinner on Thursday evening. I'll have to ask her how she can afford it if she has no pension.

Why are some people still disputing that UK pensions are paid to people that paid sufficient contributions into the UK National Insurance scheme?

[Dawson Park Boy]

9 minutes ago, strichener said:

You clearly can't read then.  In my case, I already qualify for a UK pension when I reach pensionable age as I have made the requisite number of years contributions.  Are you suggesting that if I move to the USA the day before Independence then I will be entitled to my pension from the UK government but if I stay in Scotland I'll somehow have to rely on the Scottish Government.  It is an absolutely illogical position and anyone arguing this point is not doing so in good faith or with any modicum of common sense.

As for precedent then there absolutely is - every foreign national that has worked in the UK for 35 years and have paid the required amount of NI are entitled to a UK pension.

Against my better judgement I’ll put my tuppence worth.

You have built up a pension entitlement under UK rules. Fair enough.

Lets say another person from Bradford has followed exactly the same path as you.

You will receive your pension from SG.

Bradford man will receive his from RUK government.

Remember- No fund in existence.

Your pension will be funded by SG taxpayers after your retirement.

Bradford man pension will be funded by RUK taxpayers after his retirement.

That is my understanding, right, wrong or in the middle.

[Dawson Park Boy]

3 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

I think I mentioned my partner's American aunt before - the one that taught in the UK for her entire working life? She's taking us out for dinner on Thursday evening. I'll have to ask her how she can afford it if she has no pension.

Why are some people still disputing that UK pensions are paid to people that paid sufficient contributions into the UK National Insurance scheme?

Of course your aunt receives a UK pension.

In addition she probably gets a pension from the teachers Superannuation scheme.

I never disputed the point.

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

10 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Of course your aunt receives a UK pension.

In addition she probably gets a pension from the teachers Superannuation scheme.

I never disputed the point.

 

This debate could yet rival The Mousetrap.

[Dawson Park Boy]

13 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

This debate could yet rival The Mousetrap.

Best point you’ve ever made on here.

Spot on.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

41 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Against my better judgement I’ll put my tuppence worth.

You have built up a pension entitlement under UK rules. Fair enough.

Lets say another person from Bradford has followed exactly the same path as you.

You will receive your pension from SG.

Bradford man will receive his from RUK government.

Remember- No fund in existence.

Your pension will be funded by SG taxpayers after your retirement.

Bradford man pension will be funded by RUK taxpayers after his retirement.

That is my understanding, right, wrong or in the middle.

[lichtgilphead]

25 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Of course your aunt receives a UK pension.

In addition she probably gets a pension from the teachers Superannuation scheme.

I never disputed the point.

 

Firstly, she's not my aunt. She's my partner's aunt.

Secondly, I have no idea why you are introducing her income from the Local Government Pension Scheme,  which will be paid by the Lothian Pension Scheme. However, in a similar manner to the UK scheme's obligations not automatically transferring elsewhere, Lothian will retain responsibility for paying her LGPS entitlements should she move elsewhere in the UK.

Tell me, inyour opinion, who will be responsible for paying Bradford man's pension if he moves to Brechin on retiral?

[BFTD]

23 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Your polite reminder why smashing the UK into its constituent parts is so important. 

While raspers rasp about how an iScot can possibly pay for anything and everything, the UK can't feed its kids. 

f**k the UK. It is a Shitehouse.

"It's the parents' fault. They get plenty of money handed out to them from my taxes".

Nobody fancy that one these days, no? There always used to be a few.

[Dawson Park Boy]

11 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Firstly, she's not my aunt. She's my partner's aunt.

Secondly, I have no idea why you are introducing her income from the Local Government Pension Scheme,  which will be paid by the Lothian Pension Scheme. However, in a similar manner to the UK scheme's obligations not automatically transferring elsewhere, Lothian will retain responsibility for paying her LGPS entitlements should she move elsewhere in the UK.

Tell me, inyour opinion, who will be responsible for paying Bradford man's pension if he moves to Brechin on retiral?

In my opinion, if Bradford man moves to Brechin on retiral after Independence Day his pension will be due by RUK Government. If he moves to Brechin before Independence Day it will be due by SG as he will be a Scottish resident at that time.

All just my opinion, of course.

Regarding your partner’s aunt her teachers pension is funded whereas her state pension is not and is paid out of current taxation.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Dawson Park Boy
Spelling

[sophia]

1 minute ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

In my opinion, if Bradford man moves to Brechin on retiral after Independence Day his pension will be due by RUK Government. If he moves to Brechin before Independence Day it will be due by SG as he will be a Scottish resident at that time.

All just my opinion, of course.

Regarding your partner’s aunt her teachers pension is funded whereas her state pension is not and is paid out of current taxation.

Would you say that the post referendum negotiations will take account of the pension contributions of those that will remain subjects and those that are destined for citizenship?

I'd imagine there's a spreadsheet with the workings out.