Left Back Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Soapy FFC said: He said NI Contribution, not tax revenues. NI contribution is just a tax revenue and spent by the government in the same way any other tax revenue is spent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soapy FFC Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Left Back said: NI contribution is just a tax revenue and spent by the government in the same way any other tax revenue is spent. The payment of NI qualifies you for the future payment of, amongst other things, a state pension. The pension is directly related to how many years you have paid NI. So whilst there may not be 2 pots of money for tax and NI, the NI is in effect a payment to be given back in the future once you reach a certain age. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said: The payment of NI qualifies you for the future payment of, amongst other things, a state pension. The pension is directly related to how many years you have paid NI. So whilst there may not be 2 pots of money for tax and NI, the NI is in effect a payment to be given back in the future once you reach a certain age. Yes it qualifies you. the money you pay while you're working isn't held or ring-fenced for you. It's spent on todays current pensions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said: The payment of NI qualifies you for the future payment of, amongst other things, a state pension. The pension is directly related to how many years you have paid NI. So whilst there may not be 2 pots of money for tax and NI, the NI is in effect a payment to be given back in the future once you reach a certain age. Pensions paid out by SG post independence will be paid from SG post independence tax revenues. The amount you are entitled to depends on your contributions pre and post independence. There is NO fund. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 59 minutes ago, Left Back said: Why would an independent Scotland be entitled to a share in future tax revenue in a country we’re no longer part of? Better question. Why should an independent Scotland be concerned with how rUK funds its liabilities? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said: Better question. Why should an independent Scotland be concerned with how rUK funds its liabilities? To be clear here. Lets assume I turn 67 and become entitled to my state pension on the day Scotland becomes independent. Are people really saying they'd expect the UK to fund my state pension and not an independent Scotland? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelmen Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 26 minutes ago, Left Back said: To be clear here. Lets assume I turn 67 and become entitled to my state pension on the day Scotland becomes independent. Are people really saying they'd expect the UK to fund my state pension and not an independent Scotland? Scotland will pay your state pension but it is up to the SG, as part of the divorce settlement, to get X amount of millions of our pension contributions from the UK goverment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 45 minutes ago, Left Back said: To be clear here. Lets assume I turn 67 and become entitled to my state pension on the day Scotland becomes independent. Are people really saying they'd expect the UK to fund my state pension and not an independent Scotland? Please tell me you're joking with this? Going by your logic, Brits who live in an independent Spain don't get their state pension from the UK govt? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, TheScarf said: Please tell me you're joking with this? Going by your logic, Brits who live in an independent Spain don't get their state pension from the UK govt? No I'm not joking and a UK citizen who retires abroad and is still entitled to their UK state pension is an entirely different scenario. 29 minutes ago, steelmen said: Scotland will pay your state pension but it is up to the SG, as part of the divorce settlement, to get X amount of millions of our pension contributions from the UK goverment. There are no pension contributions. Those have been spent on current state pensions. They aren't invested or held in a fund (well actually a tiny amount is held in a buffer account to smooth out any discrepanices between that months income and expenditure. Around 2 months worth of payments or something along those lines). What you guys are basically saying is that an independent Scotland will only assume pension liabilities from the moment of independence so all the years of entitlement built up while part of the UK will continue to be paid by the UK. Do you realise how ludicrous that sounds? State pensions would likely be one of the least contentious parts of the negotiations but it absolutely will not happen that the UK taxpayer will be funding Scottish state pensions for decades until everyone that is pensionable age in Scotland has only ever accrued entitlements (or whatever system Scotland would use) under an independent Scotland. What will happen is the SG will assume liability for the entitlements (and existing pensions) of Scots that were built up as part of the UK and the SG would fund those pensions out of SG tax revenue post independence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Left Back said: No I'm not joking and a UK citizen who retires abroad and is still entitled to their UK state pension is an entirely different scenario. There are no pension contributions. Those have been spent on current state pensions. They aren't invested or held in a fund (well actually a tiny amount is held in a buffer account to smooth out any discrepanices between that months income and expenditure. Around 2 months worth of payments or something along those lines). What you guys are basically saying is that an independent Scotland will only assume pension liabilities from the moment of independence so all the years of entitlement built up while part of the UK will continue to be paid by the UK. Do you realise how ludicrous that sounds? State pensions would likely be one of the least contentious parts of the negotiations but it absolutely will not happen that the UK taxpayer will be funding Scottish state pensions for decades until everyone that is pensionable age in Scotland has only ever accrued entitlements (or whatever system Scotland would use) under an independent Scotland. What will happen is the SG will assume liability for the entitlements (and existing pensions) of Scots that were built up as part of the UK and the SG would fund those pensions out of SG tax revenue post independence. Who says people willing be losing their UK Citizenship after independence? The Irish didn’t after all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Clown Job said: Who says people willing be losing their UK Citizenship after independence? The Irish didn’t after all. This is getting surreal. Whether we'd be entitled to dual citizenship or not rUK would not be funding state pensions for Scottish pensioners post independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, Left Back said: This is getting surreal. Whether we'd be entitled to dual citizenship or not rUK would not be funding state pensions for Scottish pensioners post independence. You’re right it is getting a bit unreal A UK citizen living in Spain is entitled to the pension A UK citizen living in Scotland wouldn’t be entitled to the pension Doesn't really make sense 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, Left Back said: No I'm not joking and a UK citizen who retires abroad and is still entitled to their UK state pension is an entirely different scenario. There are no pension contributions. Those have been spent on current state pensions. They aren't invested or held in a fund (well actually a tiny amount is held in a buffer account to smooth out any discrepanices between that months income and expenditure. Around 2 months worth of payments or something along those lines). What you guys are basically saying is that an independent Scotland will only assume pension liabilities from the moment of independence so all the years of entitlement built up while part of the UK will continue to be paid by the UK. Do you realise how ludicrous that sounds? State pensions would likely be one of the least contentious parts of the negotiations but it absolutely will not happen that the UK taxpayer will be funding Scottish state pensions for decades until everyone that is pensionable age in Scotland has only ever accrued entitlements (or whatever system Scotland would use) under an independent Scotland. What will happen is the SG will assume liability for the entitlements (and existing pensions) of Scots that were built up as part of the UK and the SG would fund those pensions out of SG tax revenue post independence. This article from FOA sums it up quite well: https://fraserofallander.org/who-pays-the-state-pension-in-an-independent-scotland/ The reality is that there will be a trade. UK gov will continue pension liability in exchange for reciprocal arrangements. As happens with the EU, Australia etc at the moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Clown Job said: You’re right it is getting a bit unreal A UK citizen living in Spain is entitled to the pension A UK citizen living in Scotland wouldn’t be entitled to the pension Doesn't really make sense So you really think the Scottish government will assume no liabilities for state pensions and rUK would be effectively subsidising an independent Scotland on this? That really is never going to happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: This article from FOA sums it up quite well: https://fraserofallander.org/who-pays-the-state-pension-in-an-independent-scotland/ The reality is that there will be a trade. UK gov will continue pension liability in exchange for reciprocal arrangements. As happens with the EU, Australia etc at the moment. You seemingly failed to see this part which deals with funding so no the UK government wouldn't just blanket continue liability. "It would expect the Scottish government to make a reasonable contribution to the costs of the State Pension in Scotland" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Left Back said: So you really think the Scottish government will assume no liabilities for state pensions and rUK would be effectively subsidising an independent Scotland on this? That really is never going to happen. See link above. It will not be subsidizing anything, because it will be part of a larger negotiated settlement over asset and liability . However the likely reality is rUK will be paying a good proportion of our pensions for a long time. Any other scenario is ludicrous and unworkable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Left Back said: You seemingly failed to see this part which deals with funding so no the UK government wouldn't just blanket continue liability. "It would expect the Scottish government to make a reasonable contribution to the costs of the State Pension in Scotland" .... this then suggests that rUK will in fact assume liability for our pensions but expect Scotland to contribute an amount subject to negotiation. Edited September 7, 2022 by git-intae-thum Typo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 13 minutes ago, Left Back said: You seemingly failed to see this part which deals with funding so no the UK government wouldn't just blanket continue liability. "It would expect the Scottish government to make a reasonable contribution to the costs of the State Pension in Scotland" These guys are living in cloud cuckoo land. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 Just now, Dawson Park Boy said: These guys are living in cloud cuckoo land. Did you invite them? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: These guys are living in cloud cuckoo land. The FOA is quite respected actually. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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