When will indyref2 happen?

[Salt n Vinegar]

3 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

We never ever had the backing of the Union.

Not that long ago Genocide was carried out here in the Highlands in the name of the westminster government and king, houses were burned to the ground, men women and children were murdered and many starved as their crops were burned and livestock stolen of slaughtered.

It's only in recent times that the Highlands have recovered from scraping an existence.

Thats the 'fuckin backing of the union' the Highlanders endured.

And as a wee aside, a line from a Runrig song* that spreads culpability to another richly deserving section of the establishment...  "with all the praying men of God, who stood and watched it all go on". 

A lesson from history about what can happen when establishment attitudes that convert people and communities into "assets" or "liabilities" go unopposed. 

Make striking more difficult? What the Hell is it in people's minds that has convinced them that working people looking to be treated fairly are now the enemy? A government exists to serve and protect its people, not treat them like "problems" or even "enemies" to in some weird way have to be 'dealt with'.  If what the candidates have said during the campaign even remotely resemble what they do in office, never mind strikers.  Political opponents will be next.  They already treat Parliament with utter contempt. We ain't seen nothing yet. 

*Dance Called America"

Edited August 22, 2022 by Salt n Vinegar
Typo

[DeeTillEhDeh]

That's another trolling sock puppet added to my ignore list.

His "facts" make the Heil look like a bastion of truth.

[Billy Jean King]

Scottish unionists, man.  Fucking hell.

It's Unionist single over the last few hours. The Fletch thing is simply DAF in yet another of his alias posters. Hence he is green dotting himself constantly.

[Big Rider]

8 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

5 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Scottish unionists, man.  Fucking hell.

It's Unionist single over the last few hours. The Fletch thing is simply DAF in yet another of his alias posters. Hence he is green dotting himself constantly.

What? Surely not. That would be really, really weird and an even more terrible look for the Unionists.

[Duries Air Freshener]

1 minute ago, Big Rider said:

What? Surely not. That would be really, really weird and an even more terrible look for the Unionists.

It would be if it was true, which it’s not.

[Duries Air Freshener]

4 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

I've either heard and read that comment so many times from the tory media and print press.

Obviously you don't think the time is right, fair enough that's your opinion.

So from that, when do you think is the right time??

Could your answer be never?

Since 2010 the tories, (and Lib Dem's) have cut council and social benefit budgets and created an austerity akin to war rationing, meanwhile taxes were cut which only really benefitted the rich plus Companies began to make massive profits, nothing of this was ever passed down to the general working population, and now you have strikes all over the place due to tory wage restarints over the years, even Barristers are striking. All this and the forthcoming recession lie with the Tories and yet hardly a newspaper mentions the cause preferring to belittle and villainise the trade union leaders, imagine if this was a Labour Government the media would be up in arms.

And Liz Truss has the fuckin audicity to say that it is our fault as we don't work hard enough and she wants to cut the legal rights of Trade Unions, guess who that will benefit.

So for me it is YES this is the right time for a referendum so we can rid ourselves of this corrupt and fraudulent living in the past Westminster and all of the shite we have endured under the scum tories.

I can’t speak for Fletch, but for me it shouldn’t even be a case of asking ‘when is the time?’.  It shouldn’t be a given that there will ever even be a time.

Britain is a country, and chances to split it up should never be seen as a default, but as an extraordinary event.

I wouldn’t say ‘never’, but I think there should at least been a sustained period of several years, where opinion polling shows huge leads for a split.  Like by at least 20% or possibly more.

Before we ever hold another referendum, it really should be obvious that Scots want independence, and will be settled with that outcome for good.

[lichtgilphead]

6 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

I can’t speak for Fletch, but for me it shouldn’t even be a case of asking ‘when is the time?’.  It shouldn’t be a given that there will ever even be a time.

Britain is a country, and chances to split it up should never be seen as a default, but as an extraordinary event.

I wouldn’t say ‘never’, but I think there should at least been a sustained period of several years, where opinion polling shows huge leads for a split.  Like by at least 20% or possibly more.

Before we ever hold another referendum, it really should be obvious that Scots want independence, and will be settled with that outcome for good.

Britain is not a country. Like Kincy, you are ignoring Northern Ireland. Accordingly, we can ignore your wittering.

[Duries Air Freshener]

7 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Britain is not a country. Like Kincy, you are ignoring Northern Ireland. Accordingly, we can ignore your wittering.

It’s a country, quite simply, because it fits the definition.

 NI is also part of our country.  I’d never ignore them.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Duries Air Freshener

[sophia]

7 hours ago, welshbairn said:

We would have been back in by 2018 at the latest.

I don't believe we'd ever have been out.

Firstly, we wouldn't have been independent in 2014, it might've / would've been several years to button up all of the negotiations before independence day.

I don't believe for a minute that it would've been concluded within two years and certainly not before the 23rd June 2016.

In this counterfactual scenario, realpolitik would have certainly ensured continuity and might just have saved England from their great tragedy.

[Duries Air Freshener]

4 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

We never ever had the backing of the Union.

Not that long ago Genocide was carried out here in the Highlands in the name of the westminster government and king, houses were burned to the ground, men women and children were murdered and many starved as their crops were burned and livestock stolen of slaughtered.

It's only in recent times that the Highlands have recovered from scraping an existence.

Thats the 'fuckin backing of the union' the Highlanders endured.

With all due respect, it was a lot more complicated than that.

As it stands, Scots get a great deal from the Union, as does the rest of the country.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Duries Air Freshener

[Duries Air Freshener]

11 minutes ago, sophia said:

I don't believe we'd ever have been out.

Firstly, we wouldn't have been independent in 2014, it might've / would've been several years to button up all of the negotiations before independence day.

I don't believe for a minute that it would've been concluded within two years and certainly not before the 23rd June 2016.

In this counterfactual scenario, realpolitik would have certainly ensured continuity and might just have saved England from their great tragedy.

Good points, Sophia.

It would have been the most complicated, long drawn affair ever, and all sorts of factors would come into play that would make it all unpredictable.

Look at the seismic events that have altered politics in the last ten years for example.  It’s certainly not boring, like it was when I was wee!

Edited August 22, 2022 by Duries Air Freshener

[moses1924]

7 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

We never ever had the backing of the Union.

Not that long ago Genocide was carried out here in the Highlands in the name of the westminster government and king, houses were burned to the ground, men women and children were murdered and many starved as their crops were burned and livestock stolen of slaughtered.

It's only in recent times that the Highlands have recovered from scraping an existence.

Thats the 'fuckin backing of the union' the Highlanders endured.

Was this any worse than similar atrocities committed in the name of the Scottish king / government at times in the past though? Comes a point at which this kind of history is not relevant surely?

[sophia]

8 hours ago, moses1924 said:

Was this any worse than similar atrocities committed in the name of the Scottish king / government at times in the past though? Comes a point at which this kind of history is not relevant surely?

Yes.

Have a go at sharing that view in the Bogside.

[Billy Jean King]

With all due respect, it was a lot more complicated than that.
As it stands, Scots get a great deal from the Union, as does the rest of the country.

So in one post it's Scotland is struggling and is X gazillion in debt and a few posts later "Scotland gets a great deal from the Union".....all over the shop doesn't even start to cover it.

It's wonderful to know that all those hard working tax payers south of the border keep us in the manner to which we are accustomed while we here fester despite paying tax too. A true union of equals.

[SandyCromarty]

13 hours ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

I can’t speak for Fletch, but for me it shouldn’t even be a case of asking ‘when is the time?’.  It shouldn’t be a given that there will ever even be a time.

Britain is a country, and chances to split it up should never be seen as a default, but as an extraordinary event.

I wouldn’t say ‘never’, but I think there should at least been a sustained period of several years, where opinion polling shows huge leads for a split.  Like by at least 20% or possibly more.

Before we ever hold another referendum, it really should be obvious that Scots want independence, and will be settled with that outcome for good.

Britain is not a country, it is made up of two countries, a Principality and a Province and the correct terminology/title is The United Kingdom, within that there are only two sovereign states, Scotland and england.

Great Britain is a title the Victorian regime gave itself, an era which was heavily involved in slavery, racism and the subjugation of other countries.

If a Marriage goes wrong it is perfectly legal for the two parties to divorce

Since the 1960's there are numerous countries which have severed their colonial ties with england, last year Barbados was the most recent.

Scotland as a Sovereign State is quite entitled to call for a divorce from england, and it is most likely that because of Brexit and the Scottish peoples desire to remain in the EU that a referendum will will return a successful YES vote.

We are continually told by westminster and the tories that Scotland is costing england far too much, ask yourself why they are against Scottish Independence.

[SandyCromarty]

13 hours ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

With all due respect, it was a lot more complicated than that.

As it stands, Scots get a great deal from the Union, as does the rest of the country.

As I've already said, why then don't they want to let us go??????

If you believe that we cost too much wouldn't it make sense to cut us loose. 

Scotland with it's natural resources plus presently the oil and gas has provided many many billions over the last 50 years to the english treasury and will continue to do so.

[SandyCromarty]

13 hours ago, sophia said:

I don't believe we'd ever have been out.

Firstly, we wouldn't have been independent in 2014, it might've / would've been several years to button up all of the negotiations before independence day.

I don't believe for a minute that it would've been concluded within two years and certainly not before the 23rd June 2016.

In this counterfactual scenario, realpolitik would have certainly ensured continuity and might just have saved England from their great tragedy.

The SNP's no nuke policy that the Faslane nuclear sub base would be disbanded and have to be relocated in england would be the biggest cast westminster would have to bear, the admirality have looked at the issue from various angles and one was to retain the Faslane Base within an Independent Scotland and provide a considerable annual sum to the Scottish Government for the privilege, that obviously was kicked into the long grass as the intention was to base a Scottish Navy there.

So you're right that issue alone would take some years for the relocation 

[Duries Air Freshener]

4 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

So in one post it's Scotland is struggling and is X gazillion in debt and a few posts later "Scotland gets a great deal from the Union".....all over the shop doesn't even start to cover it.

It's wonderful to know that all those hard working tax payers south of the border keep us in the manner to which we are accustomed while we here fester despite paying tax too. A true union of equals.

Did you get my post mixed up with Fletcher’s?

[Duries Air Freshener]

2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

As I've already said, why then don't they want to let us go??????

If you believe that we cost too much wouldn't it make sense to cut us loose. 

Scotland with it's natural resources plus presently the oil and gas has provided many many billions over the last 50 years to the english treasury and will continue to do so.

Who is ‘they’?

I don’t see it as anyone not wanting to let us go, because there’s no evidence that most Scots want to go.

Ill still answer the question though.. there’s more to a country than finances, economics and GDP.  Losing part of your territory is embarrassing and would be a betrayal to most Scots, who are comfortable being British.

Cool Britannia

[Duries Air Freshener]

3 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Britain is not a country, it is made up of two countries, a Principality and a Province and the correct terminology/title is The United Kingdom, within that there are only two sovereign states, Scotland and england.

Great Britain is a title the Victorian regime gave itself, an era which was heavily involved in slavery, racism and the subjugation of other countries.

If a Marriage goes wrong it is perfectly legal for the two parties to divorce

Since the 1960's there are numerous countries which have severed their colonial ties with england, last year Barbados was the most recent.

Scotland as a Sovereign State is quite entitled to call for a divorce from england, and it is most likely that because of Brexit and the Scottish peoples desire to remain in the EU that a referendum will will return a successful YES vote.

We are continually told by westminster and the tories that Scotland is costing england far too much, ask yourself why they are against Scottish Independence.

I strongly disagree Sandy.. the UK clearly falls into the dictionary definition of ‘country’.

I think our government is against partition because we, the British people, have elected MPs who feel that way.

I don’t think the marriage has gone wrong either.  It has been incredibly successful.