When will indyref2 happen?

[btb]

12 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

He really was. Him dancing in the care home with the oldies as the news came in that the SNP were romping home was a personal highlight.

An utter embarrassment to the yes side, do they not realise how stupid/awful they look doing this? James Cook is pretty good I think and fair play to him here for remaining calm. 

An utter embarrassment, yes, but then I look at the dictionary definition of scum 

Quote

a low, vile, or worthless person or group of people

and it's clear that's how Sunak & Truss see me (Scottish & working class) so I get counted twice. The answer is to know your opponents but not to hate them.

[Granny Danger]

Spitting on pensioners?  What age do Tories have to be before it is unacceptable to spit on them?

[williemillersmoustache]

It is an embarrassment and totally counterproductive. 

And it will just deflect all the attention away from the two choppers who rocked up here to tell us to shut up and f**k off. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, Hard Graft said:

One of the reasons it is difficult to get behind the Nats. As stated an embarrassment which will not persuade many people to change their minds on how they will vote.

I would say that anyone who cites the disgusting actions of a handful of wholly misguided zealots as being their catalyst to judge the merits or otherwise of major constitutional change really had no intention of doing so anyway.

[AndyM]

2 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

These cretins behind the camera are the nationalist equivalent of the unionist gammon. Absolute freaks.

They do themselves no favours and their behaviour was disgusting but I would taking no lessons from the frankly vile Agent P, one of the worst Twitter trolls around.

[monthefife]

I was in attendance at the Perth hustings protest yesterday evening.

Overall, it was heartening to see so many people from ALL walks of life in attendance (close to 2,000 I'd estimate which was far more than I was expecting). There were NHS staff, Teachers, voters from ALL non-Tory parties (Labour, Greens, Socialists, Libdems, SNP, Alba), old/young, ethnic minority groups, refugee protestors, RMT protestors, other Union Groups, international press/media etc etc. The vast majority of whom were there (rightly) to protest and vent their anger and disgust towards the self-serving, racist, narcissistic, disingenuous Tories. 

For the record, the Tory MP's/MSP's/Cllrs/Donors gleefully claiming all over social media that this protest was hijacked by SNP members and "NATS" looking to cause trouble is absolute nonsense. Most of it was fine. 

Having said that, it is unfortunate that the actions of a tiny few go on to grab the headlines. James Cook being on the receiving end of abuse and vitriol whilst calmly trying to have a discussion was embarrassing. I'm the furthest thing from a BBC supporter, but he really didn't deserve any of that. How can you expect to win over "soft no's" or "undecided's" if you conduct yourself like that? I should point out that it was just a small group of 3 or 4, (who looked to me like Alba types - go figure) but that's still 3 or 4 too many. 

[monthefife]

18 minutes ago, AndyM said:

They do themselves no favours and their behaviour was disgusting but I would taking no lessons from the frankly vile Agent P, one of the worst Twitter trolls around.

Absolutely. What those idiots don't understand, is that by conducting themselves in the way that they did last night, it only plays right into their hands and they will use that to tarnish the movement as a whole. 

[jamamafegan]

I was in attendance at the Perth hustings protest yesterday evening.
Overall, it was heartening to see so many people from ALL walks of life in attendance (close to 2,000 I'd estimate which was far more than I was expecting). There were NHS staff, Teachers, voters from ALL non-Tory parties (Labour, Greens, Socialists, Libdems, SNP, Alba), old/young, ethnic minority groups, refugee protestors, RMT protestors, other Union Groups, international press/media etc etc. The vast majority of whom were there (rightly) to protest and vent their anger and disgust towards the self-serving, racist, narcissistic, disingenuous Tories. 
For the record, the Tory MP's/MSP's/Cllrs/Donors gleefully claiming all over social media that this protest was hijacked by SNP members and "NATS" looking to cause trouble is absolute nonsense. Most of it was fine. 
Having said that, it is unfortunate that the actions of a tiny few go on to grab the headlines. James Cook being on the receiving end of abuse and vitriol whilst calmly trying to have a discussion was embarrassing. I'm the furthest thing from a BBC supporter, but he really didn't deserve any of that. How can you expect to win over "soft no's" or "undecided's" if you conduct yourself like that? I should point out that it was just a small group of 3 or 4, (who looked to me like Alba types - go figure) but that's still 3 or 4 too many. 

Sadly the dumbo ultra-nats who engaged in the distasteful behaviour are too stupid to realise that their behaviour would be used as the main portrayal of events at the protest by the pro-unionist media. They will know all too well of the BBC’s tendency to report stories related to independence in as bad a light as possible. Really stupid behaviour from stupid people who don’t realise they are doing harm to the very movement they support.

[williemillersmoustache]

The most annoying thing for me is that these tubes clearly just like attention, and don't care about the damage they do. 

There are legitimate reasons to protest and legitimate reasons to be angry that a closed contest is being fought up here on the basis of how best to ignore us and circumvent the people we do elect. 

Even more irritatingly one of the only online reports from the hustings which isn't utterly terrible, contemptible tory fanzine pish is from James Cook. 

And I am not a fan. He may be the best of a bad bunch but post 2014 he said in some podcast that the BBC not only didn't really scrutinise the NO side but that they didn't need to. 

ETA but that doesn't, for the avoidance of doubt, make screaming traitor at him acceptable or asking how Scottish he is not spine bendingly cringeworrhy and embarrassing. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by williemillersmoustache

[Salt n Vinegar]

It is indeed a pity that folk easily see a bunch of idiots acting stupidly but are utterly blind to the Tories abusing their power to protect and enrich their pals.  The enemy isn't the bloke shouting abuse, it's the government committing it. 

[monthefife]

1 minute ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

It is indeed a pity that folk easily see a bunch of idiots acting stupidly but are utterly blind to the Tories abusing their power to protect and enrich their pals.  The enemy isn't the bloke shouting abuse, it's the government committing it. 

The thing is, most people are NOT blind to the Tories abusing their power. I just think that for a tiny group resorting to behaving like absolute wallopers is a MUCH welcome distraction for the Tory's and their media pals to run cheap, lazy, tabloid headlines to deflect away from what people should be focussing on which is the Tories abusing their power. It's just falling right into their trap. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

4 minutes ago, monthefife said:

The thing is, most people are NOT blind to the Tories abusing their power. I just think that for a tiny group resorting to behaving like absolute wallopers is a MUCH welcome distraction for the Tory's and their media pals to run cheap, lazy, tabloid headlines to deflect away from what people should be focussing on which is the Tories abusing their power. It's just falling right into their trap. 

I agree that the optics of it are dire.  I'd have preferred it if when the balloons on sticks and their sycophants arrived the crowd turned their backs, ideally bursting into Flower of Scotland or "Oh,  Spot the Looney". 

I hope ET and Sunak get their backsides handed to them in NI today over the trade border with the EU.  The rate at which ET changes her story,  she'll probably deny there is one. 

 

[Eddie Hitler]

3 hours ago, monthefife said:

I was in attendance at the Perth hustings protest yesterday evening.

Overall, it was heartening to see so many people from ALL walks of life in attendance (close to 2,000 I'd estimate which was far more than I was expecting). There were NHS staff, Teachers, voters from ALL non-Tory parties (Labour, Greens, Socialists, Libdems, SNP, Alba), old/young, ethnic minority groups, refugee protestors, RMT protestors, other Union Groups, international press/media etc etc. The vast majority of whom were there (rightly) to protest and vent their anger and disgust towards the self-serving, racist, narcissistic, disingenuous Tories. 

For the record, the Tory MP's/MSP's/Cllrs/Donors gleefully claiming all over social media that this protest was hijacked by SNP members and "NATS" looking to cause trouble is absolute nonsense. Most of it was fine. 

Having said that, it is unfortunate that the actions of a tiny few go on to grab the headlines. James Cook being on the receiving end of abuse and vitriol whilst calmly trying to have a discussion was embarrassing. I'm the furthest thing from a BBC supporter, but he really didn't deserve any of that. How can you expect to win over "soft no's" or "undecided's" if you conduct yourself like that? I should point out that it was just a small group of 3 or 4, (who looked to me like Alba types - go figure) but that's still 3 or 4 too many. 

There is no such thing as a "Soft No" who's sitting around deciding what they think on the constitution based on what some folk shouted at a Tory or James Cook.

It's a convenient fiction (for politicians who are actually supposed to be winning support over to Yes, but are failing to increase support currently) to pretend that it would all be in the bag if only "Mental McSmith didn't shout at James Cook at a protest and be so uncouth".

Now I am not arguing that shouting at a Beeb reporter is warranted, or helpful, but I don't think it's going to turn anyone beginning to think "Jeez, I am worried about the way the UK is going, these energy prices etc etc!" from someone considering voting Yes next time into a No. It's imagining that relative no-marks have way more power to affect folk than they really do and, in fact, you are only likely to convince any of those protestors with a large ego to think they have more sway than they do and encourage them to do it again by peddling this sort of nonsense.

Most folk don't even know who James Cook is, far less care who might have shouted at him.

It's down to Westminster to piss enough people off, or leading Yes politicians to impress enough people with their vision, whether "Soft Nos" change their minds or not. "We'd be winning if a clown didn't shout at James Cook", isn't the answer.

[Lex]

6 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

There is no such thing as a "Soft No" who's sitting around deciding what they think on the constitution based on what some folk shouted at a Tory or James Cook.

It's a convenient fiction (for politicians who are actually supposed to be winning support over to Yes, but are failing to increase support currently) to pretend that it would all be in the bag if only "Mental McSmith didn't shout at James Cook at a protest and be so uncouth".

Now I am not arguing that shouting at a Beeb reporter is warranted, or helpful, but I don't think it's going to turn anyone beginning to think "Jeez, I am worried about the way the UK is going, these energy prices etc etc!" from someone considering voting Yes next time into a No. It's imagining that relative no-marks have way more power to affect folk than they really do and, in fact, you are only likely to convince any of those protestors with a large ego to think they have more sway than they do and encourage them to do it again by peddling this sort of nonsense.

Most folk don't even know who James Cook is, far less care who might have shouted at him.

It's down to Westminster to piss enough people off, or leading Yes politicians to impress enough people with their vision, whether "Soft Nos" change their minds or not. "We'd be winning if a clown didn't shout at James Cook", isn't the answer.

Yeah would agree with this. Voters are pretty entrenched on this issue on both sides and have been since the referendum.

[Frank Quitely]

The thing that struck me about the Perth hustings was that the audience was probably more politically balanced than any Question Time the BBC has hosted in Scotland over the last decade.

[Brother Blades]

I’m sorry, I really don’t agree. I’m an Independence supporter & always will be, there are soft no’s , just as there are soft yes’s. If this wasn’t the case (in general) there would be no swing in any election in around a 25 year period. Of course it hurts independence if some supporters are being c***s. 
If you liken it to football (it’s a football forum after all) in the 80’s & 90’s any team with a minority hooligan support was castigated. I’m not saying they should have been, but they were. It’s the same with this. Be squeaky clean or suffer the anti-Indi press. It’s a bad look. 

[The_Kincardine]

On 17/08/2022 at 15:51, Eddie Hitler said:

t's down to Westminster to piss enough people off, or leading Yes politicians to impress enough people with their vision, whether "Soft Nos" change their minds or not. "We'd be winning if a clown didn't shout at James Cook", isn't the answer.

It's neither of these things.  There is no right to Britain being partitioned.  And although I don't vote Conservative I  am happy that Truss and Sunak have made this point clear.

What our next PM has to do is either ban secession - like Germany -  or raise a high bar - like Canada.

What we can't have is Britain being held to ransom by a thicket of small-minded xenophobes.

[Antlion]

18 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

It's neither of these things.  There is no right to Britain being partitioned.  And although I don't vote Conservative I  am happy that Truss and Sunak have made this point clear.

What our next PM has to do is either ban secession - like Germany -  or raise a high bar - like Canada.

What we can't have is Britain being held to ransom by a thicket of small-minded xenophobes.

Pure whining grievance from a xenophobic supporter of the partitionist UK.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Antlion

[The_Kincardine]

On 17/08/2022 at 17:05, Brother Blades said:

Be squeaky clean or suffer the anti-Indi press. It’s a bad look. 

Silly.  The Nats are an angry and abusive bunch.  The vile politics of identity and division attracts such characters.  Sadly.

[Antlion]

Just now, The_Kincardine said:

Silly.  The Nats are an angry and abusive bunch.  The vile politics of identity and division attracts such characters.  Sadly.

Which explains why you bragged about voting for a nationalist party even as it was enacting the vile politics of identity and division via partitioning us from our continental neighbours. I suppose your innate anger and penchant for abuse drew you to the post-2016, Brexit-pursuing, identity-politicking Tories?