When will indyref2 happen?

[Albus Bulbasaur]

The idea that UDI would happen after a GE is absolutely insane and is pure red meat. 

[renton]

1 minute ago, Paco said:

I haven’t seen the speech but the outcomes seem fairly pragmatic. Plan A is try asking, which will be a no. Then it’ll be the courts, which I suspect will also be a no.

Plan C is the interesting one. I think Sturgeon deserves credit from all sides for not going down the route of an “illegal” referendum as a fair chunk of her party members would like. However what is the detail of using the GE as a ‘de facto’ referendum? If the SNP get more than 50% of the vote, it’s UDI? An extra extra special mandate to ask for a Section 30 again? Or does a simple plurality of seats under FPTP count as a win?

Simple plurality of seats. No doubt there would be some kind of Unionist coalition to stand against it that time.

[renton]

Just now, Albus Bulbasaur said:

The idea that UDI would happen after a GE is absolutely insane and is pure red meat. 

I don't think she mentioned UDI.

[Abdul_Latif]

1 minute ago, Paco said:

Plan C is the interesting one. I think Sturgeon deserves credit from all sides for not going down the route of an “illegal” referendum as a fair chunk of her party members would like. However what is the detail of using the GE as a ‘de facto’ referendum? If the SNP get more than 50% of the vote, it’s UDI? An extra extra special mandate to ask for a Section 30 again? Or does a simple plurality of seats under FPTP count as a win?

My main concern here is that the SNP cannot control the narrative that they are the Indy movement itself.

I’m off the scale in favour of Indy, but I simply cannot vote SNP as a means to an end and no party should ever expect you to in a democracy.

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, Paco said:

I haven’t seen the speech but the outcomes seem fairly pragmatic. Plan A is try asking, which will be a no. Then it’ll be the courts, which I suspect will also be a no.

Plan C is the interesting one. I think Sturgeon deserves credit from all sides for not going down the route of an “illegal” referendum as a fair chunk of her party members would like. However what is the detail of using the GE as a ‘de facto’ referendum? If the SNP get more than 50% of the vote, it’s UDI? An extra extra special mandate to ask for a Section 30 again? Or does a simple plurality of seats under FPTP count as a win?

Even the plan C is questionable IMO. The UK government would be under no obligation to respect the results of a “de facto” referendum.

 

IMO the best chance of independence happening is a legal referendum being bargained for by SNP MPs in a hung Parliament scenario after the next general election. 

[BigDoddyKane]

I hope it can be written into this indyref when agreed (for me it will happen) that its agreed regardless of result no other referendum will be held within 20 years

[Albus Bulbasaur]

2 minutes ago, renton said:

I don't think she mentioned UDI.

She didn't. Not sure the relevance this has to my post though. 

[Lyle Lanley]

3 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I hope it can be written into this indyref when agreed (for me it will happen) that its agreed regardless of result no other referendum will be held within 20 years

Think if it's a no vote this time again. We won't get another referendum for a long time. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Lyle Lanley

[renton]

Just now, Albus Bulbasaur said:

She didn't. Not sure the relevance this has to my post though. 

You mean the post where you mentioned UDI?

[Bairnardo]

What I sort of take from option C is that the GE will be fought on a single issue so that there can be no denial of the mandate FOR a referendum. I dont think anyone is expecting UDI or anything like it, unless iv misinterpreted. 

[Left Back]

2 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I hope it can be written into this indyref when agreed (for me it will happen) that its agreed regardless of result no other referendum will be held within 20 years

Will never happen.  Should the referendum go ahead and SNP lose they'll want to try again.

[scmwell]

My main concern here is that the SNP cannot control the narrative that they are the Indy movement itself.
I’m off the scale in favour of Indy, but I simply cannot vote SNP as a means to an end and no party should ever expect you to in a democracy.

Surely one of the first things that happen when independence is achieved is a Scottish general election then you can vote for who you want

[Albus Bulbasaur]

Just now, renton said:

You mean the post where you mentioned UDI?

Yeah. 

I made a post about UDI in relation to the poster above me posting about UDI. You thought it would be clever to point out Sturgeon didn't mention UDI when nobody claimed she did. 

[williemillersmoustache]

*much predictable unionist thrashing about*

[Abdul_Latif]

Just now, scmwell said:

Surely one of the first things that happen when independence is achieved is a Scottish general election then you can vote for who you want

After how long and how many f**k ups though?

The SNP will hold power for while in an Indy Scotland, that I can live with.

What I don’t like is them underhandedly hoovering up all the votes in a GE and producing little with it, other than monopolising Scottish politics.

[BigDoddyKane]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

What I sort of take from option C is that the GE will be fought on a single issue so that there can be no denial of the mandate FOR a referendum. I dont think anyone is expecting UDI or anything like it, unless iv misinterpreted. 

I read it as that too, no really viable otherwise

[jamamafegan]

f**k (and I cannot stress this enough) the SNP, shocking party that have shown themselves up as incompetent and left a lot of their morals and values in question.
However if this goes ahead I have absolutely no doubt that it’ll be a Yes vote from me, have absolutely no love for the UK, England or anything like that, the SNP won’t be around forever, I do sincerely hope this goes ahead and that we don’t f**k it up this time.

Sigh. Didn’t take long for this kind of patter to raise its head again.

As you fine well know, this is a vote for independence - not for the SNP. Why you felt the need to shoehorn in a remark about your hatred for the party I do not know. It just feeds into this narrative “am no voting Yes cause I hate the SNP!!1!1!” I say this as someone who is also not a fan of the SNP.

I don’t care which party is in charge, I’d be voting for independence regardless every single time. We are voting for a future where Scotland takes its own path. To run our own affairs. No more conservative rule probably ever again. An opportunity to rejoin the EU and forge close bonds with neighbouring countries.

It’s important to remind people of the bigger picture here rather than focus on petty party politics.

[scmwell]

After how long and how many f**k ups though?
The SNP will hold power for while in an Indy Scotland, that I can live with.
What I don’t like is them underhandedly hoovering up all the votes in a GE and producing little with it, other than monopolising Scottish politics.

I get that but the way we are controlled by Westminster our votes up here have very little power at present. As you say means to an end got to play the long game here.

[BigDoddyKane]

1 minute ago, jamamafegan said:

 

Sigh. Didn’t take long for this kind of patter to raise its head again.

As you fine well know, this is a vote for independence - not for the SNP. Why you felt the need to shoehorn in a remark about your hatred for the party I do not know. It just feeds into this narrative “am no voting Yes cause I hate the SNP!!1!1!” I say this as someone who is also not a fan of the SNP.

I don’t care which party is in charge, I’d be voting for independence regardless every single time. We are voting for a future where Scotland takes its own path. To run our own affairs. No more conservative rule probably ever again. An opportunity to rejoin the EU and forge close bonds with neighbouring countries.

It’s important to remind people of the bigger picture here rather than focus on petty party politics.

 

If we vote for that, that cant be something decided post independence without a vote 

[Albus Bulbasaur]

1 minute ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I read it as that too, no really viable otherwise

But they maintain their position that they believe they have a mandate anyway, winning seats in a GE wouldn't give them a section 30 out of nowhere, it'd be the exact same mandate they have now.