effeffsee_the2nd Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 17 hours ago, Kenneth840 said: We can have a referendum if we choose to. The problem is that most Scots think that they are different to other nations. I guess you know that all referendums are advisory, the brexit one was only enforced (right word?) because it was the view of a majority. As I type this I cannot remember the exact number/percentage brexit vote. This is why I prefer the plebiscite election vote. ALL independence parties stand on a mandate of declaring independence if there is a majority elected to government. Yes it is UDI. What else is a declaration of independence. BFTD, we are going to have to unilaterally declare independence at some point! There has to be confrontation with the British state if we are to be independent. Not this pish again, In the even of UDI, no one will recognize us, no access to the UN, no diplomatic relations with other countries, Scottish passports not accepted for travel, no access to the IMF. In the real world of international relations, you're not a country just because you say you are, only if others agree that you are, which is why places like the Palestinian territory's or northern Cyprus are not real countries despite their governments claim that they are . The UK government would continue to claim to be the legitimate sovereign state, would most likely dissolve the Scottish parliament. Even if the Scottish government tried to ignore this and continued to meet in their own capacity, they would have no way of governing, the UK treasury would control all of the money, the MOD would control all the territory including sea and airspace. UDI is a hiding to nothing Either have an armed confilct and force the UK to sign a peace deal giving us recognition or accept that we can only vote to leave when they let us 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said: Not this pish again, In the even of UDI, no one will recognize us, no access to the UN, no diplomatic relations with other countries, Scottish passports not accepted for travel, no access to the IMF. In the real world of international relations, you're not a country just because you say you are, only if others agree that you are, which is why places like the Palestinian territory's or northern Cyprus are not real countries despite their governments claim that they are . The UK government would continue to claim to be the legitimate sovereign state, would most likely dissolve the Scottish parliament. Even if the Scottish government tried to ignore this and continued to meet in their own capacity, they would have no way of governing, the UK treasury would control all of the money, the MOD would control all the territory including sea and airspace. UDI is a hiding to nothing Either have an armed confilct and force the UK to sign a peace deal giving us recognition or accept that we can only vote to leave when they let us Sadly, the current best option for an independent Scotland is increasingly looking like a rise in ENGLISH nationalism, and before anyone scoffs just take a look at events both local and international over the last decade - nothing is too fanciful in the current UK climate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 29 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said: ...or accept that we can only vote to leave when they let us That's the part that is far from settled though. A referendum vote isn't a reserved matter as proved with the existence of The Referendums Act 2020. A section 30 is desireable, but not necessary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDoddyKane Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) I presume the thought by the SNP leadership is start the process and build up momentum, ramping up the pressure on the UK government to agree to one. It can work so the idea is ok. Ofcourse relying on only the SNP to manage that wouldnt be wise as they are as clueless as all the other parties. Hopefully though some people outside the SNP and Alba step up to the front Everything currently is in favour of independence imo, it should be a walk in the park. Sadly looking at the clowns in charge its going to be difficult but its still winnable Edited June 19, 2022 by BigDoddyKane 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 10 hours ago, Snafu said: Oh she knew. I don't think she needed to be controlled from what we have witnessed during the pandemic she is very much in full control, but you can tell that she was very careful what she said and it was short and to the point. But yes she was protected but she didn't give the impression she needed protection as she never sounded like she was going to drop the ball. However her side of the story probably checked out, otherwise her opposition would still be after her. There isn't much left to hold on to here by trying to implicate Sturgeon with this. The UKG using the intelligence services to spy on the SNP was already tried years ago, it would be a massive red face again for the UKG if they got caught. This country UK is already suffering the effects of reduced freedoms due to law passed during the pandemic without giving free reign for the UKG to spy on opposition, this is getting into authoritarian territory. Are you suggesting that the UKG should use undemocratic means to achieve keeping the Union together, I mean once that Pandora's box is opened where do you draw the line? I’m actually not sure tbh. Losing part of your territory is a seriously big deal.. it’s the type of thing wars are fought over, so I’d expect the intelligence services to be playing a part. Is it moral to infiltrate organisations and force compromised individuals to dance to your tune? Depends on what the tune is, I suppose. I don’t see such actions as undemocratic either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Bulbasaur Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Snafu said: The British Empire is no different to any other during history, Scotland will eventually break away. Scotland were literally up there as one of the biggest benefactors during the British Empires slave trade time. Of course countries may choose to break away as they have historically done so but if Scotland were to do so it would have nothing to do with old school empire building which Scotland heavily partook in. Edited June 19, 2022 by Albus Bulbasaur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 An alarm has just gone off somewhere in Buckinghamshire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 Predictable though, seeing as most folk aren't bothering a f**k with the Covid thread, he needs something else to gain maximum attention.I thought that was the Ukraine thread? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: 23 hours ago, Day of the Lords said: Predictable though, seeing as most folk aren't bothering a f**k with the Covid thread, he needs something else to gain maximum attention. I thought that was the Ukraine thread? I don't think that's quite as busy a thread as it once was 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 Murdo Fraser is one of the thickest people to have ever lived. He's dangerously stupid. Not surprising, given he's a massive ***. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 I see Neil Oliver has found his level on GB News 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: I see Neil Oliver has found his level on GB News He has indeed, a high level. A platform where diversity of opinion and freedom of speech are actually allowed. Edited June 20, 2022 by Duries Air Freshener 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDoddyKane Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 hes a reminder of how many people lost the plot during covid 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Bulbasaur Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 minute ago, BigDoddyKane said: hes a reminder of how many people lost the plot during covid I must say I did quite like him and enjoyed one of his earlier covid rants but he very soon launched himself down what I'd consider the weird rabbit hole of ridiculous culture war style stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said: I see Neil Oliver has found his level on GB News Q) Who'd win if GB News and Talk TV had a fight to the death? A) All of us. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 On 15/06/2022 at 13:44, Dons_1988 said: I have to confess I’m not an economist and haven’t done the required reading to opine on currency options. Let’s hope there’s plenty of detail in the papers to come. The two broad points they need to address is 1) independence isn’t a gross act of self harm similar to brexit and 2) it’s all well and good comparing ourselves to other countries but what is it about independence that helps us achieve that and why can’t it be achieved in the uk? That is the best Q I have seen in ages. Scotland has a massive divide between 'nice places' and 'shiteholes'. For example, Deeside and N Lanarkshire. - both of which I know very well. Deeside is one of the really nice places in Europe to live and bring up weans - which is why it is populated by folk from around the world - inc. many Scandis - who fall in love with it. Coatbridge? Not so much. 15 years of a Nationalist administration hasn't closed the gap between, say, Aboyne and Coatbridge or, say, Hyndland and Possilpark. Yet they want us to believe that a 'Yes' vote would turn Scotland into Denmark. Nationalists are selling snake oil, sadly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 On 18/06/2022 at 08:29, Ervin H Burrell said: On 18/06/2022 at 13:56, Duries Air Freshener said: I read the whole article.. bit of an eye opener. Shafi is a clever guy and spot on in many respects. I went to university with Johnathon, scary guy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 5 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: That is the best Q I have seen in ages. Scotland has a massive divide between 'nice places' and 'shiteholes'. For example, Deeside and N Lanarkshire. - both of which I know very well. Deeside is one of the really nice places in Europe to live and bring up weans - which is why it is populated by folk from around the world - inc. many Scandis - who fall in love with it. Coatbridge? Not so much. 15 years of a Nationalist administration hasn't closed the gap between, say, Aboyne and Coatbridge or, say, Hyndland and Possilpark. Yet they want us to believe that a 'Yes' vote would turn Scotland into Denmark. Nationalists are selling snake oil, sadly. Sure, those disparities exist and it’s not a great look. One might argue 15 years isn’t enough to radically change the underlying causes of that but specific to an indy debate, the argument needs to be less about government performance and more constitutional. It’s perfectly reasonable to ask what is it about the uk that is preventing closing that gap and what can independence do for that? The next question is then will an independent Scotland have the resources to do it. The ‘reckless tories’ stuff is a bit of a unionist trope but there is truth to it. I think tories bad will bring people to the debate but if independence is serious then a credible positive case for it needs to be put forward to convert the maybes into yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 11 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: I see Neil Oliver has found his level on GB News He’s excellent. GB News just get better and better with a wide range of opinions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: He’s excellent. GB News just get better and better with a wide range of opinions. “People are calling it everything from shit to fucking shit!” 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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