When will indyref2 happen?

[Zern]

Correct Ivo, you don't so much "meet the criteria" as set the criteria and meet up with them later.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Zern

[Zern]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

We agree on that. Any enthusiasm for a referendum next year from Sturgeon and Harvie is a bluff as they know the Tories will say no. It's all about keeping their supporters onside with constitutional stuff because the day to day at Holyrood won't do it.

 

They're not bluffing.

This is first announcement that they have made explicitly setting out their intention to hold a referendum with or without a section 30

[HTG]

2 hours ago, Antlion said:

Is “Better Together” rebranding as “Maybe, Probably Slightly Less Pish Together”? It’s catchy.

He's a total arsehole who seems to be absolutely shiting the thought of a referendum and the damage it'll do to the development of a return to left wing politics as the norm for the UK.  As if the last 40 years have shown that the UK is right on the cusp of voting for that ...

Edited June 16, 2022 by HTG

[Antlion]

28 minutes ago, HTG said:

He's a total arsehole who seems to be absolutely shiting the thought of a referendum and the damage it'll do to the development of a return to left wing politics as the norm for the UK.  As if the last 40 years have shown that the UK is right on the cusp of voting for that ...

Tbh, if you believe he’s a socialist, I have a bridge to sell you. I’ve never met a socialist quite so enamoured of Toryism, and keen on condemning everyone and everything as wicked capitalists except the Tories (and Brexit, of course, which he only became glad of when - quelle surprise - it officially became the Tories’ pet project). 

Being an actual socialist generally requires more than occasionally remembering to say “up the workers” in between bouts of “SNP BAD!”, “Starmer bad”, “Scottish independence bad”, and “EU bad”.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

Maybe it does but the reality is you are applying to join the EU at a point where there are five candidate countries waiting to get in and Ukraine also trying to join. It's pretty clear that the EU doesn't want any of them so it's hard to see them letting us in either.

In the meantime Scotland is using Sterling, has no central bank and is economically up shit creek with vultures circling.

Re the central bank, Scotland would be entitled to a share of the BOE’s reserves if it was to have to take on some of the UK’s debt, this would allow for the creation of a central bank. 

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Re the central bank, Scotland would be entitled to a share of the BOE’s reserves if it was to have to take on some of the UK’s debt, this would allow for the creation of a central bank. 

Aye but the SNP plan as it stands is NOT to have a currency issuing Central Bank.

They may change that in the upcoming prospectus but I doubt it.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

Aye but the SNP plan as it stands is NOT to have a currency issuing Central Bank.

They may change that in the upcoming prospectus but I doubt it.

Is that in terms of still using the pound? If so that’s fair enough. Id rather use the Euro and be a member of the EU though. 

[Detournement]

30 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Tbh, if you believe he’s a socialist, I have a bridge to sell you. I’ve never met a socialist quite so enamoured of Toryism, and keen on condemning everyone and everything as wicked capitalists except the Tories (and Brexit, of course, which he only became glad of when - quelle surprise - it officially became the Tories’ pet project). 

Being an actual socialist generally requires more than occasionally remembering to say “up the workers” in between bouts of “SNP BAD!”, “Starmer bad”, “Scottish independence bad”, and “EU bad”.

Tories are Tories. They represent the interest of the ruling class, always have and always will.

The issue with our Parliamentary politics is that despite a majority of people rejecting the Tory ruling class ideology we still can't organise any political vehicle that will improve the lives of ordinary people. And that is largely down to people like Starmer and Sturgeon who also follow ruling class ideology but dress it up as something else. They are the primary problem.

[Detournement]

5 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Is that in terms of still using the pound? If so that’s fair enough. Id rather use the Euro and be a member of the EU though. 

The SNP plan is just to piggyback on the pound (Sterlingisation). So there would be no control of interest rates or ability to do QE style money creation or even short term Ways and Means financing. This would lead to Scotland's borrowing costs going through the roof and pressure to balance the budget wherever we were in the business cycle. It means ever greater austerity. We would actually be the advanced economy with a household budget.

The requirements to join the EU at the moment include using a currency issued by your own Central Bank which we would then fail. A lot of Indy supporters think the EU would change this rule because Scotland is A Great Bunch Of Lads but I have my doubts.

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Detournement

[Antlion]

11 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Tories are Tories. They represent the interest of the ruling class, always have and always will.

The issue with our Parliamentary politics is that despite a majority of people rejecting the Tory ruling class ideology we still can't organise any political vehicle that will improve the lives of ordinary people. 

And that is largely down to people like Starmer and Sturgeon who also follow ruling class ideology but dress it up as something else. They are the primary problem.

 

Not really making a case for a perpetual Tory-led union there, for all you want to make Sturgeon and Starmer the real villains, lurking behind the benevolent, honest Tories just doing what open, dear old Tories do (God bless em).

[Detournement]

5 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Not really making a case for a perpetual Tory-led union there, for all you want to make Sturgeon and Starmer the real villains, lurking behind the benevolent, honest Tories just doing what open, dear old Tories do (God bless em).

I hate to break it to you mate but there will be Tories in any independent Scotland and they won't be like the Tories we have just now.

[Antlion]

15 minutes ago, Detournement said:

 

The requirements to join the EU at the moment include using a currency issued by your own Central Bank which we would then fail. A lot of Indy supporters think the EU would change this rule because Scotland is A Great Bunch Of Lads but I have my doubts.

 

Can you provide the EU accession criteria which sets out the requirements of a currency issued by our own central bank? I’d like to see how closely this rule is followed in practice in terms of membership of the EU v. membership of the Euro area (which as far as I know comes later, and is considered something new members should work towards).

[Antlion]

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I hate to break it to you mate but there will be Tories in any independent Scotland and they won't be like the Tories we have just now.

They won’t be in power, do you mean?

Edited June 16, 2022 by Antlion

[Todd_is_God]

Regardless of whether or not a referendum actually happens next year (my instinct is that it won't as the outcome will be too close to be confident of it being not just "Yes" but strongly yes), I can't believe anyone is viewing NS's promise of holding one with any degree of certainty.

She's promised a referendum "next year" every year since 2015!

[Zern]

Just now, Todd_is_God said:

Regardless of whether or not a referendum actually happens next year (my instinct is that it won't as the outcome will be too close to be confident of it being not just "Yes" but strongly yes), I can't believe anyone is viewing NS's promise of holding one with any degree of certainty.

She's promised a referendum "next year" every year since 2015!

Except that she hasn't. Nor has Patrick Harvie.

October 2023

[Todd_is_God]

19 minutes ago, Zern said:

Except that she hasn't

[sophia]

25 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

She's promised a referendum "next year" every year since 2015!

C'mon man 

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, sophia said:

C'mon man 

What? She has. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Zern]

28 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

That's not every year is it?

They were promising one for 2020. That got derailed by COVID. They said they would shelve it until we were through.

Which we are.

Question is, for those who disagree with even having a referendum, unless UK tells you it is ok, is what happens if it is ruled legal by the courts but is still opposed by the UK government.

Boycott or participate?

[Empty It]

That's not every year is it?
They were promising one for 2020. That got derailed by COVID. They said they would shelve it until we were through.
Which we are.
Question is, for those who disagree with even having a referendum, unless UK tells you it is ok, is what happens if it is ruled legal by the courts but is still opposed by the UK government.
Boycott or participate?

I'm all for the gammon unionists to boycott it....