When will indyref2 happen?

[Detournement]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:

Scotland must be the only resource-rich country on the planet where everything positive about the place is a massive burden.

The people of Scotland (or the even the UK) don't own the fucking resources that's the problem.

And that's an incredibly dumb statement. Think about the DRC or other resource rich African and Latin American nations.

[Nae Union]

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

You would need to have a governing party who would protect the living standards of ordinary people and resist the overtures of external forces to privatise everything that isn't tied down.

Given the SNP's position on Freeports, Offshore Wind, Air BnB, Land Reform and Rent Control we know that they will do whatever Blackrock and co tell them.

So don't vote for them after independence. 

[Nae Union]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The people of Scotland (or the even the UK) don't own the fucking resources that's the problem.

And that's an incredibly dumb statement. Think about the DRC or other resource rich African and Latin American nations.

And the North American countries?

[Detournement]

16 minutes ago, Zern said:

The paper highlighted the contrast between countries of similar makeup to Scotland to show how the Westminster model appears to be serving us badly. They are not incorrect. It wasn't meant to address the questions surrounding a currency or a national bank. Those will come.

 

The Westminster model is pish but that doesn't mean the independent Scotland model won't be worse.

As i've said Austria and Denmark are not similar countries to Scotland today or Scotland after an independence vote. It's complete ignorance to say they are.

[TonyHendrix]

36 minutes ago, Detournement said:

A very simple point that a lot of independence supporters struggle with. 

Obviously Sturgeon can't give any specific details on macro economic issues that would improve the lives of ordinary Scots because it would shine a light on her shitty neoliberal administration. 

 

At the end of the day Nicola Sturgeon will do her own thing, she's more than capable of guiding Scotland to Independence. 

Yes it's a long and bumpy road ahead but she's the best there is,not perfect by any means but much better than that lot 400+ miles in London. 

As for economists.....

 

[Detournement]

Started watching that video and the first thing the guy said is "if it could get into the EU and I think it could". So vote for independence now and hope we get into the EU later. Don't worry about the indefinite period between.

[Jeff Venom]

The people of Scotland (or the even the UK) don't own the fucking resources that's the problem.
And that's an incredibly dumb statement. Think about the DRC or other resource rich African and Latin American nations.

Vote for a party post-independence that would run on bringing it all back into public ownership then.
You absolutely know that this isn't going to happen at UK level, so my statement being dumb or otherwise is irrelevant.
Why not be pragmatic about it?

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

Started watching that video and the first thing the guy said is "if it could get into the EU and I think it could". So vote for independence now and hope we get into the EU later. Don't worry about the indefinite period between.

Sounds more reasonable than “stay out of the EU forever and under Tory rule for the foreseeable future”.

[Detournement]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:

Vote for a party post-independence that would run on bringing it all back into public ownership then.
You absolutely know that this isn't going to happen at UK level, so my statement being dumb or otherwise is irrelevant.
Why not be pragmatic about it?

Why would it more likely to happen in Scotland than the UK?

[Glen Sannox]

13 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:

Scotland must be the only resource-rich country on the planet where everything positive about the place is a massive burden.

Indeed, it’s the SNP and Greens that now view our resources as a burden. That’s a pretty quick turnaround from 2014 when they were trying to sell our future based on oil. They now can’t even bring themselves to mention the “o” word.

[Antlion]

6 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The Westminster model is pish but that doesn't mean the independent Scotland model won't be worse.

 

Is “Better Together” rebranding as “Maybe, Probably Slightly Less Pish Together”? It’s catchy.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

Sounds more reasonable than “stay out of the EU forever and under Tory rule for the foreseeable future”.

Maybe it does but the reality is you are applying to join the EU at a point where there are five candidate countries waiting to get in and Ukraine also trying to join. It's pretty clear that the EU doesn't want any of them so it's hard to see them letting us in either.

In the meantime Scotland is using Sterling, has no central bank and is economically up shit creek with vultures circling.

[Antlion]

Just now, Detournement said:

Maybe it does but the reality is you are applying to join the EU at a point where there are five candidate countries waiting to get in and Ukraine also trying to join. It's pretty clear that the EU doesn't want any of them so it's hard to see them letting us in either.

In the meantime Scotland is using Sterling, has no central bank and is economically up shit creek with vultures circling.

Good thing there isn’t a queue and that the EU doesn’t work like that. I get it, though, we’re shit.

Can we just confirm the mock-socialist position is currently “Tory Brexit Britain good - independent Scotland bad”?

[BFTD]

Goodness me. Whatever could have triggered this old-school multi-thread H_B rant?

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

Good thing there isn’t a queue and that the EU doesn’t work like that. I get it, though, we’re shit.

Can we just confirm the mock-socialist position is currently “Tory Brexit Britain good - independent Scotland bad”?

Why do you think we would get in before North Macedonia or Turkey or Ukraine? 

There is a consistency to all these claims. We will be like Denmark, not Greece! We will be resource rich like Canada not Mexico! We will get into the EU much faster than Albania! It's blatant.

It's not about one thing being good and the other being bad. That's moronic. It's about having an understanding of the existing economic and political situation rather than just operating on vibes with a bit of Northern European chauvinism thrown in as well. 

[Tattie36]

I think you also have to throw in the fact that Scotland/Scottish people are in a very unique situation in that we were already in the EU and were forcibly removed even though the vast majority of the population voted to stay. The powers that be will be very aware of this.

[Antlion]

13 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Why do you think we would get in before North Macedonia or Turkey or Ukraine? 

 

There is no queue. Countries accede to EU membership when they fit the criteria and are formally accepted. There are boxes to tick, and different countries manage to (or decide to) tick them all at different times. Depending on the domestic situations of those countries, they will conclude the box-ticking when they are able (or willing) to do so.

The idea of applicant countries forming a line to be judged by the monolithic, dictatorial EU is, unsurprisingly, a longterm Brexiter-Tory ploy to demonise the EU. It’s straight out of the Farage/Davis/Rees-Mogg playbook. Of course, in this context, it also allows for some sniping at Scotland, which happens to be another page of the same BritNat script. In reality, actual accession is a process of mutual negotiation which can be tied up by either side or proceed smoothly depending on the situations in the applicant countries. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Antlion

[welshbairn]

54 minutes ago, Detournement said:

And on top of the shite economic conditions we don't have a single major party which favours working class people over big business

Do you really think there's less chance of that happening by remaining in the UK than becoming independent?

[Zern]

32 minutes ago, Detournement said:

You would need to have a governing party who would protect the living standards of ordinary people and resist the overtures of external forces to privatise everything that isn't tied down.

Given the SNP's position on Freeports, Offshore Wind, Air BnB, Land Reform and Rent Control we know that they will do whatever Blackrock and co tell them.

On the first, the SNP/Greens do better than the rest.

On the second; um wtf? Conspiracy theories?

[Dan Steele]

Ah well, that's me opting to stay in the UK. Between being last in the line to be vetted for joining the EU and hearing about the bloke in Berwick not being able to get to Eyemouth for messages due to an international border between us an England, it's just all too much.