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When will indyref2 happen?


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Indyref2  

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4 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

Vote slab....mibbe get another referendum next century.....mibbe

Written entirely from the perspective of someone who is watching what Keir Starmer and the Labour party are actually doing, humping the legs of the brexity north of England, and just flat out imagining that they are or they would do something completely different.

Sure there's a case for Labour " to respect the demands for greater autonomy" "or meaningful economic self-determination, incorporating public ownership, transformative support for homegrown green industry and expanded workers’ rights" but they conspicuously aren't offering this, and aren't going to, which is very much the point. 

It is just a nonsense to lay the ground for the precondition for the SNP supporting a minority Labour government shouldn't be a section 30 order but a plan for a new Labour run No.10 to lavish spending, priorities and powers on an SNP voting Scotland, who presumably have just told them to f**k off at the ballot box again. Something which is antithetical and would I imagine boil the pish of, those voters in England who they've been courting so hard to ditch the tories, with their anti Europe, anti refugee centrist garbage and who actually did vote Labour.  Behave.

Edited by williemillersmoustache
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11 hours ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said:

 

Interesting article. 

Thought the "vaguely patriotic" line was a bit strange though. 

As someone who wants Labour to win the next election I see this as a viable approach, I'm all for more autonomy across the board, it's certainly more appealing than the chaotic rush into a referendum with the current state of play. A lot of people like myself believe Indy at this stage would be a catastrophic failure however if the Scottish government can actually deliver and show competence it could slowly switch voters like myself over given time. 

I've said as long as I've been here that it's a hard balance to strike, over the past 30 years the SNP has done wonderful on a slow long term approach, i could see this continuing but the type of people that demand a referendum now because they think the outcome would definitely go there way are delusional, most sensible Indy supporters would agree with this approach rather than hurdling into a referendum and losing and having support plummet for good. The Alba Da types must be extremely frustrated but stupid people are often frustrated by their lack of understanding anyway. 

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5 hours ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

Interesting article. 

Thought the "vaguely patriotic" line was a bit strange though. 

Aye, something a bit different. He's an Independence supporting Labour member, not many of them left.

I think the vaguely patriotic thing was about Scots who feel Scottish 1st, but still oppose or aren't convinced by Indy, (but could be possibly persuaded) as opposed to folk who feel British 1st or are hard-core unionist, who will never be turned.

5 hours ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

As someone who wants Labour to win the next election I see this as a viable approach, I'm all for more autonomy across the board, it's certainly more appealing than the chaotic rush into a referendum with the current state of play. 

Not that I trust Starmer at all, but you would think he would have to offer the SNP something in the event they win the next GE, but fail to get an overall majority. (probably not a referendum initially though). Plays into the paradox that the SNP is more likely to get a majority to support Indy with the Tories in charge, but are more likely to actually get a 2nd referendum with Labour in charge.

5 hours ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

I've said as long as I've been here that it's a hard balance to strike, over the past 30 years the SNP has done wonderful on a slow long term approach, i could see this continuing but the type of people that demand a referendum now because they think the outcome would definitely go there way are delusional, most sensible Indy supporters would agree with this approach rather than hurdling into a referendum and losing and having support plummet for good. The Alba Da types must be extremely frustrated but stupid people are often frustrated by their lack of understanding anyway. 

I think quite a lot of the UDI and '2nd referendum NOW' stuff is driven by FOMO. Either the fear that it'll be too late to see any benefits/the oil is running out etc. or on a more personal level, they won't be around to witness or enjoy it. It would be interesting to see a more detailed breakdown of the 'UDI v Gradulist' split in terms of age, social class etc. whether it is mostly the older 'da's'.

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47 minutes ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said:

Aye, something a bit different. He's an Independence supporting Labour member, not many of them left.

I think the vaguely patriotic thing was about Scots who feel Scottish 1st, but still oppose or aren't convinced by Indy, (but could be possibly persuaded) as opposed to folk who feel British 1st or are hard-core unionist, who will never be turned.

Not that I trust Starmer at all, but you would think he would have to offer the SNP something in the event they win the next GE, but fail to get an overall majority. (probably not a referendum initially though). Plays into the paradox that the SNP is more likely to get a majority to support Indy with the Tories in charge, but are more likely to actually get a 2nd referendum with Labour in charge.

I think quite a lot of the UDI and '2nd referendum NOW' stuff is driven by FOMO. Either the fear that it'll be too late to see any benefits/the oil is running out etc. or on a more personal level, they won't be around to witness or enjoy it. It would be interesting to see a more detailed breakdown of the 'UDI v Gradulist' split in terms of age, social class etc. whether it is mostly the older 'da's'.

Yeah I thought that was the intention it's just something I profoundly disagree with. I think it's naive and foolish when the identity element is conflated with patriotism. It's a much more palatable way of saying if you don't support Indy then you must hate Scotland. 

Yeah I still think it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Labour wins outright or doesn't need the SNP to form a government, perhaps this is uneducated from myself and some of the statto nerds will be around to explain why this would be extremely improbable. Either way I don't think Labour would agree to a referendum in that instance so this seems to be an intriguing possibility. 

On the last part I think you're right but I do understand their frustrations on that part. You have a lot of the "inevitable" patter from some of the older posters. The part that I find

Spoiler

amusing

Is a lot of these older types have posted about waiting for the old Tories to die off before Indy goes there way but the way the clock is now tick tocking away I can't see many of them being alive to witness such a thing if it were to happen.  Maybe it's just anecdotal experience and it's hard to gauge the older you get but I don't see the argument being made from many younger types at the moment, the Indy movement always seemed quite youthful but now it seems like it's been abandoned by most other than the Da's and flag shaggers on Twitter. (This isn't me saying support wouldn't be there just about general activism etc..)

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On 27/03/2022 at 15:44, Day of the Lords said:

It must just be coincidence that it's only ..... some.... Rangers fans and various other yoon losers creating alias after alias to relentlessly troll the Politics forum of a football messageboard. It's such an empty existence, no wonder they're mostly fucking jakes.

It's hard enough being a Nationalist, anti-monarchist, atheist Rangers supporter. Please give  the sane among us a break and use the word "some" just occasionally! 

Radio Scotland just took the face off Dross by pointing out that his change of mind on Boris being PM effectively meant that Putin had the final say on who the British PM is.  An unusual, but welcome, smack in the pus.

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Radio Scotland just took the face off Dross by pointing out that his change of mind on Boris being PM effectively meant that Putin had the final say on who the British PM is.  An unusual, but welcome, smack in the pus.


Wait, Radio Scotland doesn’t think that Douglas decides who the PM is, do they?
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2 minutes ago, Lex said:

 


Wait, Radio Scotland doesn’t think that Douglas decides who the PM is, do they?

 

Nope, I think the idea they put out was that what might be keeping Boris in no 10 is the bogey man Putin, because if not for him, Dross would presumably want Boris out on his arse. I thought it was a pretty straightforward piece of devilment in the interview.  Dross has a say in the matter if enough of his colleagues can find a spine to run up and put the letters in. 

Do I think it'll happen soon? No, spines appear to be scarce. 

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9 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Nope, I think the idea they put out was that what might be keeping Boris in no 10 is the bogey man Putin, because if not for him, Dross would presumably want Boris out on his arse. I thought it was a pretty straightforward piece of devilment in the interview.  Dross has a say in the matter if enough of his colleagues can find a spine to run up and put the letters in. 

Do I think it'll happen soon? No, spines appear to be scarce. 

Well he wanted him out before and he didn't leave, so his change of mind had no impact on Boris' position whatsoever. 

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4 minutes ago, Lex said:

Well he wanted him out before and he didn't leave, so his change of mind had no impact on Boris' position whatsoever. 

I'd be more if the views that the "not now because of Putin" Tory MPs are cowards, or have been "leant on" but I accept that's only an opinion. When pressed on things like "partygate", or lying to Parliament, or lying to the Queen, every Tory MP who runs for the "not now because of Putin" is publicly accepting that their view of who should lead the Tory party is more set by the Russian nutter than what's best for the country. It also means that they can continue to run away from the simple fact that they have put into the most powerful political position of the country someone of, well, let's say questionable honesty, dubious morals and wanton disregard for the very Union he claims to support. 

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15 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I'd be more if the views that the "not now because of Putin" Tory MPs are cowards, or have been "leant on" but I accept that's only an opinion. When pressed on things like "partygate", or lying to Parliament, or lying to the Queen, every Tory MP who runs for the "not now because of Putin" is publicly accepting that their view of who should lead the Tory party is more set by the Russian nutter than what's best for the country. It also means that they can continue to run away from the simple fact that they have put into the most powerful political position of the country someone of, well, let's say questionable honesty, dubious morals and wanton disregard for the very Union he claims to support. 

The majority of Tory MP's are interested in one thing: winning elections, and Boris has shown he can win them, and that's why he is staying. The electorate gave him a historic mandate in 2019 and the electorate will have the chance to remove him in 2024. 

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36 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I'd be more if the views that the "not now because of Putin" Tory MPs are cowards, or have been "leant on" but I accept that's only an opinion. When pressed on things like "partygate", or lying to Parliament, or lying to the Queen, every Tory MP who runs for the "not now because of Putin" is publicly accepting that their view of who should lead the Tory party is more set by the Russian nutter than what's best for the country. It also means that they can continue to run away from the simple fact that they have put into the most powerful political position of the country someone of, well, let's say questionable honesty, dubious morals and wanton disregard for the very Union he claims to support. 

It also entirely infantalises the UK government and the British state apparatus as a whole. The proposition is that there is nobody else in the whole county who could supply arms and aid to Ukraine. Its fucking embarrassing. 

And as for winning elections, almost entirely down to him, the tories just took a ridiculous pumping. No matter how it is spinned that's what happened.

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  • 2 weeks later...

No no no. There are plenty of regions in England that haven't been tainted by the evil separatist agenda. They must be allowed to stay in the UK. Partition of England is the only answer.

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