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When will indyref2 happen?


Colkitto

Indyref2  

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1 hour ago, Antlion said:

Indeed it was - it’s a simple statement of fact. Obviously thickos will misinterpret my comments as saying the 2014 was only about the EU. It wasn’t. It was, though, a fact that our vote being on whether or not we remained part of an EU member state was made a significant factor in the 2014 referendum by the UK. Our EU membership was then revoked by the UK. We have never voted on whether we want to be part of Brexit Britain.

I take it ‘WE’, according to you is Scotland?

To me WE is, and always will be, the UK.

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7 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

I take it ‘WE’, according to you is Scotland?

To me WE is, and always will be, the UK.

To be fair, I was specifically discounting you and your fictional, misogynist wife, because both are designed to do nothing but attract negative attention.

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12 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

You're dealing with a thicket of ScotchNats whose knowledge of history is a weird synthesis of Braveheart and Trainspotting, though.  Not surprising to me.

Which films do you suggest one might watch to get a broader view of historical perspective and a way forward? I think your side favour Triumph of the Will but I might be wrong.

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There is no question that a key plank of the 2014 Ref for the No side was that it was the only way to guarantee remaining in the EU. That was a powerful argument for a lot of No voters, who were worried about too much change at one time, ie leave the UK AND the EU. All the while Cameron and co were plotting to placate a political party (UKIP) which had around 2% of the GE vote in England by moving to an EU Ref (albeit one they thought they would win comfortably).

I don't disagree that Covid has made it impossible to hold a Ref over the past 2 years or indeed this one. However, the position of Westminster isn't going to change...they will continue to say 'No' whether the question is asked next year or after the next GE. 

The only possibility, as things stand at the moment, is to have a minority Lab govt after the GE which needs SNP MP's support to form an administration. In that case part of the conditions would surely be holding a Ref.

However, if that prospect looks at all likely, the Tories will simply ramp up the narrative as they did successfully in 2015, of vote Labour and get the SNP propping them up, which will gain traction with enough voters in England to potentially sink Labour. Never mind that a minority Tory govt would be furiously scrabbling around to get the Lib Dems to help them form an administration, if it came to it.

 

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4 minutes ago, Jedi said:

There is no question that a key plank of the 2014 Ref for the No side was that it was the only way to guarantee remaining in the EU. That was a powerful argument for a lot of No voters, who were worried about too much change at one time, ie leave the UK AND the EU. All the while Cameron and co were plotting to placate a political party (UKIP) which had around 2% of the GE vote in England by moving to an EU Ref (albeit one they thought they would win comfortably).

I don't disagree that Covid has made it impossible to hold a Ref over the past 2 years or indeed this one. However, the position of Westminster isn't going to change...they will continue to say 'No' whether the question is asked next year or after the next GE. 

The only possibility, as things stand at the moment, is to have a minority Lab govt after the GE which needs SNP MP's support to form an administration. In that case part of the conditions would surely be holding a Ref.

However, if that prospect looks at all likely, the Tories will simply ramp up the narrative as they did successfully in 2015, of vote Labour and get the SNP propping them up, which will gain traction with enough voters in England to potentially sink Labour. Never mind that a minority Tory govt would be furiously scrabbling around to get the Lib Dems to help them form an administration, if it came to it.

 

I doubt they’d have to do much scrabbling. The Lib Dems’ knickers would be round their ankles before the final result was announced.

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Anyone who voted in 2014 because of concerns over the EU when they knew we were facing a referendum if the Tories won the next election needs their head looked at.

2014 was not lost over the EU. It was lost over basic things such as completely unanswered questions on pensions, currency and borders at Gretna etc. Salmond "didn't do detail" and thought Saltire waving would be enough and that we'd fathom things out later on.

Don't get me wrong. He did brilliantly to get so close to winning on the back of no details whatsoever but there's no doubt what caused the ultimate failure in 2014.

Flag waving only gets you so far. A lesson the SNP doesn't seem to have learned in the last 8 years.

This is not the first time you have posted this trope.

670 pages with approximately 350,000,000 words

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22 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

The last indy wasnt lost due to concerns over the EU.

Indy2 wont be won because of any notions of rejoining the EU

It will be won by selling the fact we can stand on our own 2 feet without the UK or EU

 

 

The Scottish government didn’t lose in 2014 because of the EU issue and the UK government didn’t win because of the EU issue. Both sides made great play of the EU issue, however; and the winning side has since been shown by (remarkably short) history to have been spectacularly wrong to do so. The Scottish electorate can and have legitimately pointed this out and since voted for a say on whether or not we remain in Brexit Britain - something we’ve never done before because Brexit post-dates the last referendum.

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47 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

It is a tactic that successive Westminster Govts (and opposition parties) seem desperate to see how far they can out do each other on. 

My inherent kindness moved to to restrain myself and avoid contradicting the complete falsehood of "flag-waving".

2014 was the compete antithesis of such, the mood throughout was a rejection of muscular imperialism with the offer of a northern European social democracy as the prize.

Oh wait, there was an exception and that was in George Square on the 19th of September.

Referendum-disorder.jpg

George-Square.jpg

1411668743350_wps_9_Police_stand_guard_as_a_c.jpg

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7 minutes ago, sophia said:

My inherent kindness moved to to restrain myself and avoid contradicting the complete falsehood of "flag-waving".

2014 was the compete antithesis of such, the mood throughout was a rejection of muscular imperialism with the offer of a northern European social democracy as the prize.

Oh wait, there was an exception and that was in George Square on the 19th of September.

Referendum-disorder.jpg

George-Square.jpg

1411668743350_wps_9_Police_stand_guard_as_a_c.jpg

Careful now, @oaksoft might develop an interest in football the way you're going...

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1 hour ago, jamamafegan said:

Chagos Islands: Mauritian flag raised on British-controlled islands https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60378487

Yes Mauritius! Come on wee nippy #raisethefleg

Mon the Mauritians.

That article says the UK's reason to hold onto the islands is for "security purposes". Reckon the hand of Washington is involved in this as Diego Garcia is a joint US-UK base, a base the US likes to deploy their B2 Spirit stealth bombers to.

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