When will indyref2 happen?

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 hour ago, Grant228 said:

 

See below with regards to echo chambers. 

That's exactly what this part of the forum tends to be surely? Any dissenting voice is either labelled as an alias, a moon howler etc etc. There's no debate, just sneering contempt. 

It's one of the reasons I stopped looking on here a while back. 

Good point bud. 

I'm trying hard to appreciate more points of view of here.....I might not agree with them, but at least I can learn to respect what others post without flying off the handle every time. 

I hope you don't feel I was treating your posts with contempt. 

[HoBNob]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Good point bud. 

I'm trying hard to appreciate more points of view of here.....I might not agree with them, but at least I can learn to respect what others post without flying off the handle every time. 

I hope you don't feel I was treating your posts with contempt. 

Oh you absolutely weren't, I was enjoying your take on it, was put together really well. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

3 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Because its another policy/decision that I simply don't agree with. 

I understand that, but I can't see an independence-killing link between a three week health measure and a sudden desire to remain under Westminster rule in perpetuity.  If Scotland was a total exception in Europe in taking steps to control covid, then fair enough, that's something worth considering, but it doesn't seem to me to be the case

It seems to me that BoJo would have done something pretty similar this week, but he couldn't risk more resignations from the cabinet or flak from the loudmouth know nothing problem deniers on his back benches. There were reports earlier today of a possible recall of Parliament between Christmas and New Year. Even despite the reputation the Tories have for partying, I doubt that it would be done just so they can compare Christmas presents. 

[Zern]

3 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Because its another policy/decision that I simply don't agree with. 

Why?

I don't understand why you disagree with measures designed to restrain the spread of infection. The rates have been rising. No response would be reckless.

[HoBNob]

16 minutes ago, Zern said:

Why?

I don't understand why you disagree with measures designed to restrain the spread of infection. The rates have been rising. No response would be reckless.

Because I think the measures are simply too heavy handed and excessive. 

If the variant is so severe we need to be putting restrictions on then I don't get why we need to wait four? Days for the restrictions to be imposed either. 

[HoBNob]

22 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I understand that, but I can't see an independence-killing link between a three week health measure and a sudden desire to remain under Westminster rule in perpetuity. . 

At no point have I said I don't support independence though, being fed up of the current guise of the snp doesn't equate to being a BritNat. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

7 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Because I think the measures are simply too heavy handed and excessive. 

If the variant is so severe we need to be putting restrictions on then I don't get why we need to wait four? Days for the restrictions to be imposed either. 

That is a fair question.

If the Scottish Government had implemented the measures from today, folks would have lost their minds and started screaming about 'ruining the weans' Christmas'.  They have to try to put in measures that there's a chance most folk will go along with.  Personally, I think having to curtail health measures because of the celebration of bronze age mythology is absurd but I accept that we are where we are. 

There's a sliding scale of health measures v likelihood of public acceptance. The politicians have to try to assess that and take decisions that will produce the outcomes most likely to help. 

(in my view, anyway!) 

 

[Salt n Vinegar]

8 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

At no point have I said I don't support independence though, being fed up of the current guise of the snp doesn't equate to being a BritNat. 

I agree with that, but I find it difficult to imagine a route to independence that doesn't involve continued high levels of support for the SNP.  I don't necessarily support every decision the Scottish Government takes but I' m damned if I'm going to undermine the only chance of independence because of that.  

[Soapy FFC]

4 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Because its another policy/decision that I simply don't agree with. 

There are several things from the SNP Govt that I don't particularly agree with. However, on the other hand I think it would be hard, if not impossible, to find any political party where you agree with everything they said and did. I'm not saying that makes it right, but I just think in supporting a party you sometimes have to take the rough with the smooth as long as they are going in a general direction you like.

[Zern]

22 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Because I think the measures are simply too heavy handed and excessive. 

If the variant is so severe we need to be putting restrictions on then I don't get why we need to wait four? Days for the restrictions to be imposed either. 

Because people complain more if restrictions come in without notice?

The timing also appears to be trying to allow some semblance of a normal Christmas i guess.

As someone else pointed out above, we're not the only country taking action as the Omicron variant becomes dominant. Other countries are putting measures in place, some more restrictive, whilst the UK Gov is pretending that they need to do very little Something of a pattern for them during this covid crisis.

[HoBNob]

16 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I agree with that, but I find it difficult to imagine a route to independence that doesn't involve continued high levels of support for the SNP.  I don't necessarily support every decision the Scottish Government takes but I' m damned if I'm going to undermine the only chance of independence because of that.  

My worry is the SNP are also, quite aware of that. It doesn't bode for a government that does well by it's electorate because it knows it will get elected purely because they're not Conservative, it's what happened to Labour and we've all seen what they've become in Scotland. 

 

The SNP have had continuous high support since 2014, I don't feel we're any closer to a second referendum. 

[Zern]

3 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said:

There are several things from the SNP Govt that I don't particularly agree with. However, on the other hand I think it would be hard, if not impossible, to find any political party where you agree with everything they said and did. I'm not saying that makes it right, but I just think in supporting a party you sometimes have to take the rough with the smooth as long as they are going in a general direction you like.

I think that is my and many others position with regards to SNP, they're ok, competent, not unlikelable, but they get the vote because they MOST represent what i want in general. What they lack is the power to implement a social democratic policy to any great extent as the reserved matters deny them full access to the economic levers that needed to shake up the system further.

The Greens also.

The 3 others; pass. They offer nothing.

One of the key moments during the debates this year was around UBI, and the responses from Labour and Lib Dems was that they would support this, but only if they could get their colleagues outwith Scotland to agree.

[Zern]

6 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

My worry is the SNP are also, quite aware of that. It doesn't bode for a government that does well by it's electorate because it knows it will get elected purely because they're not Conservative, it's what happened to Labour and we've all seen what they've become in Scotland. 

 

The SNP have had continuous high support since 2014, I don't feel we're any closer to a second referendum. 

They passed the referendum act in 2020 and ran for election in 2021 with one of their manifesto pledges being to hold one during the lifetime of this parliament. By making a pact with the Greens and separating the section 30 powers from the referendum itself they are planning on holding a referendum it in 2023. On that front they appear to have been consistently active in pushing forward with every legal avenue.

Without a UK Government that recognises the legitimacy of the Scottish Parliament to represent its electors, then we are at something of an impasse.  The section 30 is unlikely to be granted as before, and it is only if we are able to actually vote in a referendum and win would that be likely to change.

[Detournement]

32 minutes ago, Zern said:

 

One of the key moments during the debates this year was around UBI, and the responses from Labour and Lib Dems was that they would support this, but only if they could get their colleagues outwith Scotland to agree.

How in the world do you think Sturgeon or the SNP are going to implement UBI?

Sturgeon and Murrell must wake up every morning and give thanks that the population of Scotland has so many people actively seeking magic beans.

[Granny Danger]

People who claim that they want Independence whilst stating they won’t vote SNP lack credibility.

[Zern]

5 minutes ago, Detournement said:

How in the world do you think Sturgeon or the SNP are going to implement UBI?

Sturgeon and Murrell must wake up every morning and give thanks that the population of Scotland has so many people actively seeking magic beans.

Through independence, full fiscal autonomy that allows areas of welfare and spending to be managed.

Just as the UK government is able to slash welfare spending and cut NHS spending, our state could do it differently.

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, Zern said:

Through independence, full fiscal autonomy that allows areas of welfare and spending to be managed.

Just as the UK government is able to slash welfare spending and cut NHS spending, our state could do it differently.

The SNP don't want full fiscal autonomy. 

They want to piggyback on GBP.

[Scott Steiner]

1 hour ago, Soapy FFC said:

There are several things from the SNP Govt that I don't particularly agree with. However, on the other hand I think it would be hard, if not impossible, to find any political party where you agree with everything they said and did. I'm not saying that makes it right, but I just think in supporting a party you sometimes have to take the rough with the smooth as long as they are going in a general direction you like.

Tend to agree with this.

That's what it's like with me and the Tories.

[Zern]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

The SNP don't want full fiscal autonomy. 

They want to piggyback on GBP.

Oh FFS

Any plan for independence requires using the currency that we currently use.

Whether we transition to the Euro or some other currency is largely irrelevant as they all begin with using the GBP.

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

How in the world do you think Sturgeon or the SNP are going to implement UBI?

Sturgeon and Murrell must wake up every morning and give thanks that the population of Scotland has so many people actively seeking magic beans.

A bit like Johnson and co thanked their lucky stars that people like you would be pleased with their fantasy of Brexit.