When will indyref2 happen?

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

You seem to believe that I want uncontrolled immigration (I know you suggested as such in another thread). 

I never said any such thing. What I said is that I want refugees/immigrants/economic migrants to be humanised by the right wing media and right wing political parties, not demonised. 

All of these people have names, families, often children, they had jobs. They have stories. They have reasons why they risk their lives to try and get to the UK (or other countries).....often the reason is that the UK was implicit in destroying the social and governmental fabric of their country of origin. 

Let me point you as example to this disgusting piece of work...a deliberate and poisonous attempt to demonise refugees....which was endorsed fully by our current PM and many in his party. Maybe you can explain to us how that fits in with your views of caring, cuddly Conservatives who are all in favour of controlled immigration.

 

 

As usual, you dramatise everything.

This wasn’t even a Conservative ad. The Brexit Party, if I recall.

I certainly don’t fancy all those folks coming into the UK like that. 
I think most of the public would also agree.

If extreme lefties like yourself would just take a reasonable approach then we needn’t disagree on this.

 

[magic sign]

As usual, you dramatise everything.
This wasn’t even a Conservative ad. The Brexit Party, if I recall.
I certainly don’t fancy all those folks coming into the UK like that. 
I think most of the public would also agree.
If extreme lefties like yourself would just take a reasonable approach then we needn’t disagree on this.
 

It was a UKIP poster. Do you know who took the original photograph and where it was taken?

[Soapy FFC]

4 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

It’s all very well for Bob to take a ‘high and mighty’ position on immigration living in a country,Scotland, which has a relatively small number of immigrants.

I think he would have a different opinion if he was living in Dover or some of those south coast coastal towns watching people come ashore without any of the documentation which we native UK residents need. I bet he’d be a little ‘pissed off’. The majority are not refugees but economic migrants.

Immigration is a good thing but it needs to be controlled in order to keep social cohesion.
Most conservatives just want secure borders and a fair system.

Just out of interest, where do you stand on the 1000's of economic migrants that have moved from the UK to coastal towns and villages in Spain, Portugal and other Mediterranean countries? Do they need to be controlled to maintain social cohesion? Or is the implicit assumption that since they are from the UK and mostly white they will not upset the local cultural balance?

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 hour ago, Scott Steiner said:

 

How is the above picture an example of refugees being demonised or dehumanised though?

My personal take is that you're correct in saying that refugees/immigrants etc are indeed all individuals, with names, families, children, their own identity etc.  They are human beings of equal worth to you or I.

That doesn't mean any opposition to unlimited amounts coming over is sinister or dehumanises/demonises the individuals themselves though.

Scott, I appreciate you taking the time to debate decently. 

I admit that my phrase 'Tories will attack immigrants' was hasty and rather ill-thought through. I was in a hurry and didn't have time to type out what I meant. On second glance, I should have said something like the next Tory leader 'will ramp up the issue of immigration, in an attempt to keep the right wing of the party onside'. 

That probably sums up better what I was trying to get across. 

I'll respectively bow out of this discussion in the meantime. We'll obviously not agree completely on this subject and I've learned that a football message board is maybe not the best place to try and sway others to my point of view. 

Anyway, I dragged the thread off topic by talking about this. I'm sure it can be debated on a more relevant thread. 

Enjoy your evening 

 

[williemillersmoustache]

He should have gone on ignore as soon as the wrestling horseshit popped up rather than wait for the immigration horseshit and now the "is nazi inspired propaganda actually bad?" horseshit. 

Fixed.

[Scott Steiner]

22 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Scott, I appreciate you taking the time to debate decently. 

I admit that my phrase 'Tories will attack immigrants' was hasty and rather ill-thought through. I was in a hurry and didn't have time to type out what I meant. On second glance, I should have said something like the next Tory leader 'will ramp up the issue of immigration, in an attempt to keep the right wing of the party onside'. 

That probably sums up better what I was trying to get across. 

I'll respectively bow out of this discussion in the meantime. We'll obviously not agree completely on this subject and I've learned that a football message board is maybe not the best place to try and sway others to my point of view. 

Anyway, I dragged the thread off topic by talking about this. I'm sure it can be debated on a more relevant thread. 

Enjoy your evening 

 

Fair play.

Very good point about a football message probably not being the best place to sway the minds of others.  That's something I should bear in mind, yet I always seem to dive in head first.

Apologies for my often knee-jerk reactions!

Enjoy your evening too.

[ICTJohnboy]

2 hours ago, Scott Steiner said:

Fair play.

Very good point about a football message probably not being the best place to sway the minds of others.  That's something I should bear in mind, yet I always seem to dive in head first.

Apologies for my often knee-jerk reactions!

Enjoy your evening too.

 

So could this be the last we'll hear from you for a while?

[Jeff Venom]

The right have relied on the immigration card to whip up their useful idiot followers FOREVER.
This is nothing new.
Pointing this out does not equal uncontrolled immigration is the natural opposing viewpoint.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Taking that shite alias seriously [emoji23]

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

As usual, you dramatise everything.

This wasn’t even a Conservative ad. The Brexit Party, if I recall.

I certainly don’t fancy all those folks coming into the UK like that. 
I think most of the public would also agree.

If extreme lefties like yourself would just take a reasonable approach then we needn’t disagree on this.

 

Boris Johnson and Michael Gove led Vote Leave, and their message was identical, a total lie by the way, Turkey hasn't fulfilled any of the criteria for membership, maybe one at a push.

 

[Billy Jean King]

It’s all very well for Bob to take a ‘high and mighty’ position on immigration living in a country,Scotland, which has a relatively small number of immigrants.
I think he would have a different opinion if he was living in Dover or some of those south coast coastal towns watching people come ashore without any of the documentation which we native UK residents need. I bet he’d be a little ‘pissed off’. The majority are not refugees but economic migrants.
Immigration is a good thing but it needs to be controlled in order to keep social cohesion.
Most conservatives just want secure borders and a fair system.

Do you have a source for that stat ? Home office stats say 59% of all those who have arrived illegally in the UK have ultimately been granted asylum since 2019 which suggests your claim is as accurate as the recent total lies Patel spouted re 70% were economic migrants. No economic migrant would be granted asylum under current rules so it sounds like you have fallen for the Patel lies.

[Scott Steiner]

25 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Boris Johnson and Michael Gove led Vote Leave, and their message was identical, a total lie by the way, Turkey hasn't fulfilled any of the criteria for membership, maybe one at a push.

 

Let's face it, both sides lied as do politicians in general.

The way ordinary people have been falsely called racist, fascist, nazi etc for much of my adult life is an absolute disgrace.  Conspiratorial claims and cooked up statistics from mainstream media, politicians and hateful groups like BLM have had a free reign for years.  Dare to have certain opinions on Islam, marriage, gender, complementarianism, immigration, race realism etc and you've suddenly got every ism or phobia under the sun.

The Turkey statement and 350m for the NHS on the side of a bus are like wee blips compared to the constant pish we've had from the left over the years.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Scott Steiner

[Antlion]

12 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

 

The way ordinary people have been falsely called racist, fascist, nazi etc for much of my adult life is an absolute disgrace.  Conspiratorial claims and cooked up statistics from mainstream media, politicians and hateful groups like BLM have had a free reign for years. 

Must make it so much more difficult for you genuine scumbags to get a reaction.

[welshbairn]

19 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

The way ordinary people have been falsely called racist, fascist, nazi etc for much of my adult life is an absolute disgrace. 

Well, it turns out they were right in your case, defending blatantly racist lies.

Edited December 6, 2021 by welshbairn

[Scott Steiner]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Well, it turns out they were right in your case, defending blatantly racist lies.

Cognitive dissonance at it's best.

[BFTD]

Should be entertaining when the wrestling lad finally gets nice and specific with all of these broad claims.

Black Lives Matter being a hate group is a good start.

[Scott Steiner]

11 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Should be entertaining when the wrestling lad finally gets nice and specific with all of these broad claims.

Black Lives Matter being a hate group is a good start.

Why would it be entertaining?

Happy to go into the claims, but I'll give you some time to do your own research first.  Then we can swap notes.

In the meantime, feel free to refute anything I've said with facts and/or logic. (No sniggering at the back)

Edited December 6, 2021 by Scott Steiner

[Antlion]

18 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Should be entertaining when the wrestling lad finally gets nice and specific with all of these broad claims.

Black Lives Matter being a hate group is a good start.

Looks like this alias isn’t even starting out semi-reasonable - going baws oot racist from the off, to get the licks in before it follows the previous accounts.

[BFTD]

6 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Looks like this alias isn’t even starting out semi-reasonable - going baws oot racist from the off, to get the licks in before it follows the previous accounts.

Now now. He's only a racist if he kills someone while screaming ethnic slurs, just like you're only a fascist once you've annexed the Sudetenland.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

We've not had a facts and logic/debate me you coward guy for a while now tbf.