ICTJohnboy Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: Amazing what you can do as a small country.... https://www.rte.ie/news/budget-2022/2021/1012/1253129-budget-ireland/ Don't think you'll hear much about this on the Boris Broadcasting Corporation, or anywhere else for that matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 55 minutes ago, jamamafegan said: one of the most stupid things I’ve ever read on the forum Okay, well it’s surely daft to class a full time GP the same as a part time one. One does more work and sees more patients than the other. In terms of planning, training and recruitment, it’s surely important to measure the output of both. Whats your answer? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 On 02/10/2021 at 15:22, Kenneth840 said: Why would we want another referendum right now? The Snp cant tell its arse from its elbow, one half are calling westminster out for asking for photo id when voting, and the other half at Holyrood are needing it for a vaccine app. Apparently there is a shortage of clowns in these islands. I suggest they head to our parliaments where they will find plenty. How about because we voted for a referendum? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 If the Unionists had any sense, they'd be right behind a 2nd referendum as soon as possible. I really don't believe we'd win it. Which is utterly depressing given what a shit show the UK is at the moment and we don't seem to be getting massive swing towards independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Just now, Suspect Device said: If the Unionists had any sense, they'd be right behind a 2nd referendum as soon as possible. I really don't believe we'd win it. Which is utterly depressing given what a shit show the UK is at the moment and we don't seem to be getting massive swing towards independence. Very much of the "patience" mentality. There are very few swing voters on this issue now, and it's a generational thing. Tick tock. The point should be to establish that our parliament has the right to pursue this, or any other issue that's outlined in a party's manifesto and voted on. Making it all about one single extra independence vote just plays into the notion that we're a kiddy-on nation that needs to ask permission to do anything serious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 https://www.ft.com/content/7f792ba6-70bb-46cb-9c8b-747a326eb495?segmentid=acee4131-99c2-09d3-a635-873e61754ec6 Nicola Sturgeon is right — democracy must prevail Democracy can be delayed. It must not be denied. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alta-pete Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: https://www.ft.com/content/7f792ba6-70bb-46cb-9c8b-747a326eb495?segmentid=acee4131-99c2-09d3-a635-873e61754ec6 Nicola Sturgeon is right — democracy must prevail Democracy can be delayed. It must not be denied. See the below…. On 12/10/2021 at 14:18, Suspect Device said: If the Unionists had any sense, they'd be right behind a 2nd referendum as soon as possible. I really don't believe we'd win it. Which is utterly depressing given what a shit show the UK is at the moment and we don't seem to be getting massive swing towards independence. Any thinking Independence supporter (and laughably I’d probably put Nicola in with that group) should currently be running a million miles from pushing for a referendum anytime soon. It’d be pissed all over by the electorate. Nicola’s trick, if she can manage it, is to maintain the longevity in the spotlight to still be in post when people have to start selling their first born to pay the leccy bill. Until then, the safety of sticking with the shitshow that we all know and understand is going to win hands down every time. Sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDoddyKane Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) I dont think the feeling independence is coming for sure due to a generational shift can be guaranteed, it certainly seems that way but things can change and years of talking about independence and it not happening could turn off future voters who are too young to vote now as it can become a boring subject for them that creates a certain apathy. At some point independence has to be delivered or people will grow tired of talking about it It may be it happens before then but thinking its something that will just happen whatever im not so sure Thats why I think they need to create a positive case for it thats full of good feeling and sweeps the nation along with it , im not sure the current snp leadership have that too be honest Edited October 13, 2021 by BigDoddyKane 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 26 minutes ago, alta-pete said: Until then, the safety of sticking with the shitshow that we all know and understand is going to win hands down every time. Sorry. I’d be interested in how this (honest) argument can be spun as being better together, strong and stable, or whatever else can be invoked to make “stick with the shitshow” look like less of a climb down from pre-2014. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alta-pete Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, Antlion said: I’d be interested in how this (honest) argument can be spun as being better together, strong and stable, or whatever else can be invoked to make “stick with the shitshow” look like less of a climb down from pre-2014. Erm…as I laid out? Uk-wide the last 18months has been a shitshow. And when allowed the scope to do things their own way, the SG seemed - unless you can direct me to a fundamental directional difference - to have followed a fairly parallel path to WM but only with added tartan. They either need to get braver - and delivering - on their vision (whatever that may be) or, for the majority of the interested population it seems all we’ll get is Humza and Swinney. (yay!); and they don’t even have the balls to express an off party line opinion. IMHO traditional Scottish conservatism just won’t buy it I’m afraid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 28 minutes ago, alta-pete said: Erm…as I laid out? Uk-wide the last 18months has been a shitshow. And when allowed the scope to do things their own way, the SG seemed - unless you can direct me to a fundamental directional difference - to have followed a fairly parallel path to WM but only with added tartan. They either need to get braver - and delivering - on their vision (whatever that may be) or, for the majority of the interested population it seems all we’ll get is Humza and Swinney. (yay!); and they don’t even have the balls to express an off party line opinion. IMHO traditional Scottish conservatism just won’t buy it I’m afraid. What does this mean in the context of being a minor part of the UK? Do the SNP have a vision of a bright future for Scotland under UK rule? Should we even expect them to? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alta-pete Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Antlion said: What does this mean in the context of being a minor part of the UK? Do the SNP have a vision of a bright future for Scotland under UK rule? Should we even expect them to? PLEASE FORGIVE THE CAPS BUT ONLY ON MY PHONE. What does this mean in the context of being a minor part of the UK? I DONT KNOW. DO YOU? Do the SNP have a vision of a bright future for Scotland under UK rule? IVE NOT SEEN IT YET, HAVE YOU? Should we even expect them to? YES!! IF THEY CAN’T, WHATS THE POINT? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, alta-pete said: PLEASE FORGIVE THE CAPS BUT ONLY ON MY PHONE. What does this mean in the context of being a minor part of the UK? I DONT KNOW. DO YOU? Do the SNP have a vision of a bright future for Scotland under UK rule? IVE NOT SEEN IT YET, HAVE YOU? Should we even expect them to? YES!! IF THEY CAN’T, WHATS THE POINT? I would imagine that any pro-independence party doing much more than ameliorating the worst excesses of the UK would be spun as “look how good dependent Scotland is, being able to improve within the UK”. A balancing act has to be struck between governing well enough to inspire confidence but making clear that there are things that either can’t be mitigated or are simply forced on us as part of being an incorporated devolved nation (YMMV as to whether you think the SNP Gov are striking that balance - but that’s what’s required). Personally speaking, I don’t want the Scottish government to do a damn thing to help make the Tories’ Brexit work, never mind providing a vision of a bright, anti-EU future in the UK. I doubt anyone in favour of independence wants the SNP or Greens to be doing the racist, Europhobic Tories’ work for them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alta-pete Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth840 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 On 12/10/2021 at 12:12, Zern said: How about because we voted for a referendum? Referendum later. https://www.thenational.scot/politics/19640438.section-30-approach-achieving-independence-fraught-risk/ A plan. It should be plan A. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth840 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 When the Treaty of Union was negotiated and ratified in 1707, it was to be a Union of equals between Scotland and England. Scotland retained its own legal and educational system, and under the terms of the treaty the UK Parliament could not interfere in Scots Law. Scotland did not renounce its sovereignty, which had been legally established in the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320, the Claim of Right in 1689, and reaffirmed numerous times including by the UK Parliament as recently as July 4, 2018. You would think our Scottish government would know this, so why don't they act? Carrot anyone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 I'm not going to fault them for pursuing a strategy that has proved itself successful in the past. Ideally everyone concerned would want this to happen with of spirit of cooperation not unlike the partition of Czechoslovakia. UDI, from our MPS, would be very much an option of last resort. Used only in the event all avenues have been exhausted, something that may well become necessary. For that to work, we need allies. Fortunately for us the EU is very invested in the affairs of neighbouring states that are EU-curious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Kenneth: "SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW!" Everyone else: "What would you have us do?" Kenneth: *crickets* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 2013 2015 5/10/21 19/10/2021 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 A carbon capture facility. f**k me. Let's build using more materials instead of planting and rewilding? We're aw fucked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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