When will indyref2 happen?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

4 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57994913

A historic building burning down in an area of Glasgow attractive to students you say... 

 

Forgot to post this from earlier in the week, but 'Sturgeon doesn't actually read books' needs added to the conspiracy iceberg.

[GNU_Linux]

Forgot to post this from earlier in the week, but 'Sturgeon doesn't actually read books' needs added to the conspiracy iceberg.

Sturgeons zoom background bookshelf is actually just a green screen.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 minute ago, Frank Sobotka said:

Forgot to post this from earlier in the week, but 'Sturgeon doesn't actually read books' needs added to the conspiracy iceberg.

Seeing those three in sequential order makes me think of:

Your brains got to be so broken when you hate someone so much for bodying your diddy party and not dressing up like a character from a Trans inclusive woman's book to guard bathrooms that you refuse to believe they read books

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Denise Findlay - the roaster's roaster.

[oneteaminglasgow]

Wait, Helen Joyce’s Twitter actually has the word gender in it? Fucking hell.

[Baxter Parp]

Well.

[BFTD]

If we ever actually manage to persuade more than 50% of people to vote for Scottish independence, it's going to be mental to see the angry takes from these folk.

[NotThePars]

It’s a tough choice tbf: either I believe Sturgeon doesn’t read or she reads and thinks there’s something worthy and non-partisan in reading and appreciating Kissinger.

On balance, I think I’m going to plump for the former.

[alta-pete]

12 hours ago, BFTD said:

If we ever actually manage to persuade more than 50% of people to vote for Scottish independence, it's going to be mental to see the angry takes from these folk.

It’s a fair point. There’s enough of a number that wouldn’t take it at all well. I’ve heard it referred to as the ‘Ulsterisation’ of Scotland that I think is a wee bit OTT but if Independence does happen then there’s a chunk of the population that won’t be part of the civic joyousness. And the P&B stock answer of ‘just fire them into the sea’ doesn’t really resolve the issue either. 

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, alta-pete said:

It’s a fair point. There’s enough of a number that wouldn’t take it at all well. I’ve heard it referred to as the ‘Ulsterisation’ of Scotland that I think is a wee bit OTT but if Independence does happen then there’s a chunk of the population that won’t be part of the civic joyousness. And the P&B stock answer of ‘just fire them into the sea’ doesn’t really resolve the issue either. 

...and I was just referring to the seething independence supporters who only want it on their terms (which at the moment seem to be without the SNP in charge, with trans people back in their box, and whether or not the majority of Scots vote for it).

I'd expect Unionists to take it as well as Nationalists did in 2014 - get back to life as normal, and start trying to rebuild support for Westminster (good luck with that). And if they really, really, REALLY can't cope with the idea of living in a country that isn't run from London, under any circumstances...well, there are answers to that problem.

[sophia]

50 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

It’s a fair point. There’s enough of a number that wouldn’t take it at all well. I’ve heard it referred to as the ‘Ulsterisation’ of Scotland that I think is a wee bit OTT but if Independence does happen then there’s a chunk of the population that won’t be part of the civic joyousness. And the P&B stock answer of ‘just fire them into the sea’ doesn’t really resolve the issue either. 

It is a worry but the transition from apartheid in South Africa was managed and no small part due to the leadership offered.

In Scotland the section of society that have been encouraged by a partisan message will need to be managed and those who are presently indulging themselves with whistles that attract dogs have a big responsibility to recalibrate to help the easily led to settle down.

[alta-pete]

1 hour ago, sophia said:

It is a worry but the transition from apartheid in South Africa was managed and no small part due to the leadership offered.

In Scotland the section of society that have been encouraged by a partisan message will need to be managed and those who are presently indulging themselves with whistles that attract dogs have a big responsibility to recalibrate to help the easily led to settle down.

There’s the problem right there. Salmond in his pomp and Sturgeon at her empathetic best (however long she might hing aboot if Indy is won) are brilliant but I struggle to see any sort of depth of deep thinkers or future leaders behind them. 
 

ETA: And I think the S African comparison is more than a tad disingenuous I’m afraid. 75% of their wholly disengaged population were then fully engaged. How you gain a parallel with that unimaginable injustice and the Yoon/Nats discussion both wholly overstretches our discussions and demeans their struggles all in the one. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by alta-pete
Slow thinker

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Ultimately, post independence, the options for Unionists will be

1 acceptance and engagement 

2 disengagement 

3 resistance 

4 leave the country

I'm sure that there will be people in all of those categories.

I genuinely hope that the majority would choose no.1. 

[NotThePars]

The vast, vast, vast majority will fall into camps 1 and 2. The stakes are not that great and certainly not remotely comparable to South Africa.

[welshbairn]

On 30/07/2021 at 09:32, NotThePars said:

It’s a tough choice tbf: either I believe Sturgeon doesn’t read or she reads and thinks there’s something worthy and non-partisan in reading and appreciating Kissinger.

On balance, I think I’m going to plump for the former.

As genocidal war criminals go, some of his articles are worth a read and sometimes enlightened.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

7 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

The stakes are not that great and certainly not remotely comparable to South Africa.

Craig Murray's triumphant freedom walk from Barlinnie to take up the role of a unifying President.

Brian Spanner and Effie Deans calling for the necklacing of all collaborators with the regime.

[NotThePars]

As genocidal war criminals go, some of his articles are worth a read and sometimes enlightened.

I guarantee that anything he says has been said better by people who crucially aren’t genocidal war criminals

[btb]

I see Gove has been quoted in the Evening Standard that the government would not stand in the way of IndyRef2 if it is the "settled will" of the people although I suppose that opens up a debate as to what the phrase actually means.

Quote

The UK Government would not stand in the way of another vote on Scottish independence if it is the “settled will” of voters, Michael Gove has said.

Is Gove saying that a repeat of the status quo  in the next GE would be a mandate?

Edited August 1, 2021 by btb

[ICTJohnboy]

1 hour ago, btb said:

I see Gove has been quoted in the Evening Standard that the government would not stand in the way of IndyRef2 if it is the "settled will" of the people although I suppose that opens up a debate as to what the phrase actually means.

Is Gove saying that a repeat of the status quo  in the next GE would be a mandate?

 

Has all that tax payers money they recently spent on surveys into the desire for Indyref2, and the likely outcome told them something? 

[BFTD]

It means nothing, but is a much smarter move than just saying, "no, no no!" over and over again.

The real answer is still, "from our cold, dead hands".