When will indyref2 happen?

[SANTAN]

5 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

As long as she does it after May 31st that’s all gravy to me

 

I thought yer man had shamelessly fled the forum or deleted his account, turns out he still regularly posts in the football section! Active 6 hours ago. 

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

There are 3 options for currency. Our own pound, the UK pound or the Euro.
The latter two require other governments to play ball, handing advantage to the UK government who already won the argument on this in 2014.
We should be going for our own currency which will mean a delay as we need a central bank to be established as a bank of last resort. That delay doesn't suit those who are going for this from the heart rather than the head. There's no other credible option as far as I can tell and it brings with it huge risks regarding credibility. Impatience is driving the SNP's decision and it will kill the issue of independence stone dead.
The pensions issue was just never properly addressed. How could it be? We couldn't absolutely guarantee pensions because we have no lnder of last resort and we still don't. All the UK have to do is say there's no guarantee and they'll have won that argument as well.
Remember, the electorate don't spend time watching political videos on Youtube or doing much research into anything because they have lives to lead, a family to feed etc etc. The message "You can't use the UK pound and you can't guarantee your pensions" is brilliant, succinct and a winner for the UK and there has been no effective answer to it.

The pensions issue hasn't been addressed by the UK government either.

There's only so far you can push up the retirement age to reduce the cost of unfunded state pensions.

[NotThePars]

I thought yer man had shamelessly fled the forum or deleted his account, turns out he still regularly posts in the football section! Active 6 hours ago. 
 

Doubt you’ll see the guy again unless Sturgeon exists in the next 19 days.

[SANTAN]

5 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

Doubt you’ll see the guy again unless Sturgeon exists in the next 19 days.

 

You just to need to roll up your sleeves head towards the Morton thread and offer the square go. Or for maximum forum drama create a thread...

As an opportunistic Yoon I'm still holding hope they come with a belter of a conspiracy I can stoke up in the next week or so, preferably based around Salmond and withheld evidence. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Aye, something more substantial than Alex Salmond turning up and trying to wing it in a debate against Alistair Darling is going to be required. If Yes hasn't learned anything from 2014, then they deserve to lose again.

I'd like to think that they've been working on what will be the main sticking points in preparation and have the short, easy to understand for the layman, answers to key stuff like currency, pensions and so on. No one will be looking for 50 year macro economic plans except weirdo yoons like Kevin Hague who are never voting for you regardless.

[ayrmad]

5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The pensions issue hasn't been addressed by the UK government either.

There's only so far you can push up the retirement age to reduce the cost of unfunded state pensions.

Those on the side of the status quo don't need to address anything. 

I don't see the charismtic people required to win the arguments within the SNP, people need to be inspired to shift from NO to YES, I don't see it when I switch my telly on. 

[ayrmad]

1 minute ago, SandyCromarty said:

We've been over currency and pensions repeatedly on here and shown appropriate answers to pensions and currency on Independence.

And there is no more mileage left in the pensions and currency argument for the anti Independence mob. 

Do you honestly think that, because of the problems those two areas threw up in the 2014 referendum, that the SNP haven't prepared for those.?

 

Let's hear it then. 

[SANTAN]

[ayrmad]

1 hour ago, SandyCromarty said:

The SNP had a huge historic win last week, those who voted for them knew that a second referendum was included in the manifesto.

The unionist seethe against the result is clearly evident on here as they continually post the same old 2014 NO  scaremongering items which worked for them last time, it was noticeable that they want quiet for a couple of days on here, but ow they are back in their droves with their drivel, they can carry on with their anti hysteria all they want but when the referendum campaign starts all this will be put to rest by the SNP.

There's a whole new block of young voters now who want Independence, so I suggest you go on their social media and tell them how they are going to lose their pensions if they vote for Independence.

So bleat on all you want westminster boot lickers but that Independence wagon is gaining pace. 

That'll be nowt new to offer then. 

[Caledonian1]

37 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I agree about the EU as well.

All this talk of rejoining the EU is just more uncertainty that the SNP can't answer basic questions on, such as whether we'll get in, whether we'll need to use the Euro, borders at Gretna. Yet more ammunition for the UK.

It just seems that nobody in the SNP is thinking strategically enough about any of this.

What Nicola should do in this regard is to simply promise a referendum on applying to re-join 5 years after independence. 

Between that and having our own bank of last resort and our own currency, that should take care of most of the big weapons the UK currently have.

Absolutely agree with this....it's sufficient to satisfy those pro and anti-EU....giving it five years allows time to stimulate debate and garner opinion from EU Member states.  It may sound like a kop-out to some but it is entirely the sensible and democratic approach.

I also believe that there would be mileage in another referendum on currency after independence....personally I have no issue with us using the euro (subject to a positive vote on EU membership)

[ayrmad]

28 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I'm afraid the argument has not been won by the SNP, on either issue, in the public arena where votes count.

The UK will use those same arguments and they will have exactly the same impact as before. Add in Brexit and job fears over the pandemic and I think you'll find the public has more than enough to worry about without further upheaval. Timing is everything and the timing is shite right now for IndyRef2.

I agree, timing is everything but she really needs to get the go ahead early doors then prepare properly for it. 

[NotThePars]

Even if you are correct, how does that attitude help the cause of independence in any way, shape or form?
The SNP allowed themselves to be attacked on too many fronts. The blame for that lies squarely with Salmond's total inability to sit down and focus on detail.
They must learn from this.

It doesn’t but this isn’t a strategy meeting.

[BigDoddyKane]

Whats the figures for these new generation of voters, going by whats said here a few times I presume its been polled and the figures are clearly in favour of a Yes vote and that amount is enough on its own to close the previous gap between Yes and No?

I can quite believe they are more Pro Yes but Id be interested to see some stats even if they are out by a bit they can give a general idea. 

Any links/articles anyone can point me to?

Edited May 12, 2021 by BigDoddyKane

[BigDoddyKane]

1 hour ago, Caledonian1 said:

Absolutely agree with this....it's sufficient to satisfy those pro and anti-EU....giving it five years allows time to stimulate debate and garner opinion from EU Member states.  It may sound like a kop-out to some but it is entirely the sensible and democratic approach.

I also believe that there would be mileage in another referendum on currency after independence....personally I have no issue with us using the euro (subject to a positive vote on EU membership)

also agree with this, a referendum on joining EU makes sense after 5 years and will put it to bed for the next 20 years after independence.  I wouldnt be against Euro in long run but I think it makes sense to create our own currency and get a stable background before deciding if EU and Euro is the path people want or people want to keep own currency and by that time some of the issues that may or not be waiting to be resolved within eurozone might have already be dealt with if its needed.

[Stellaboz]

An EU referendum with at least an interim currency is definitely the best route. 

[strichener]

6 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I agree about the EU as well.

All this talk of rejoining the EU is just more uncertainty that the SNP can't answer basic questions on, such as whether we'll get in, whether we'll need to use the Euro, borders at Gretna. Yet more ammunition for the UK.

It just seems that nobody in the SNP is thinking strategically enough about any of this.

What Nicola should do in this regard is to simply promise a referendum on applying to re-join 5 years after independence. 

Between that and having our own bank of last resort and our own currency, that should take care of most of the big weapons the UK currently have.

5 years after independence or 5 years from the referendum?  I think the scale of the upheaval that we will face to become independent will have 5 years passing very quickly.  If we see significant negative outcomes early in the process (such as following the SGC recommendations would entail) and meantime the rUK is prospering then I would be fearful that we don't have shitebags changing their mind.  At the same time you will have unionists forever using the guarantee of the 5 year vote as a basis for being akward to the point that it makes independence un-workable in the short term. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by strichener

[DeeTillEhDeh]

They don't need to address it.
The onus is on those attempting change to justify that change.
Nicola should keep this simple.
Only promise what you can fully control (within reason) and kick the rest into the long grass for another day.
If she gives the electorate more than about 2 things to worry about they'll walk away and stop listening.

You misunderstand.

I'm taking about the pensions crisis

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I'm in a great mood today so I'm gonna let that comment slide. [emoji14]
I am talking about the pension situation too.
The SNP are seeking a mandate to change our country's status. That will require changes to the pension scheme and all changes come with risk.
The bit about Sturgeon keeping things simple should have been in a separate paragraph as it was more of a summary.

I agree about keeping it simple - what they don't want to do is have a wishlist that is then totted up to some ridiculous amount like the last White Paper.

Yes they should have some answers but the main principle needs to be that this about democracy - that decisions over pensions, the currency and the economy need to be made in Scotland not Westminster.

[John Lambies Doos]

Still don't understand the opposition to the Euro, serving Ireland quite well

[Dawson Park Boy]

24 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Still don't understand the opposition to the Euro, serving Ireland quite well

Being in the euro means that you have no control over your interest rate policy and therefore the strength or weakness of the currency might affect you adversely.

For some countries, Greece, Spain, Italy for example,  are forced to trade at a level higher than suits them whilst Germany has a level lower than it needs and therefore aids its exports greatly.