When will indyref2 happen?

[BFTD]

18 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Seriously. Congratulations on mixing me up with someone else on here.

If you can find me ever referring to "undeserving poor" or "jungle compounds" then let's see it.

Pony up or STFU.

You seem remarkably certain.  You've not been editing your back catalogue, have you?

Next you'll be denying issuing veiled threats to contact a poster's employer, and spending some time on the naughty step for trawling the Depression thread for ammunition  

[Highlandmagar]

9 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Scotland bottling it again doesn't bear thinking about

A very real possibility. Shitebag Scotland. 

[BigDoddyKane]

I don't think its Scotland bottling it.

Its up to the Independence movement to sell it. Its a bit of an easy out to say if its a No that Scotland bottled it. I think the SNP struggles to connect and speak with those whos votes it needs to turn currently. I hope that changes and like Ive said before I think it needs more people to step up to do that job and some of them shouldnt be in the SNP who do it.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by BigDoddyKane

[Lurkst]

1 hour ago, Highlandmagyar Tier 3 said:

Shitebag Scotland. 

They've played their joker early this time...

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Lurkst

[Highlandmagar]

20 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

They've played their joker early this time...

 

Indeed they have. 

[BigDoddyKane]

Brown sold the gold, the reserves perfect for keeping for a rainy day. A rainy day being corona epidemic. What a clown he is.

[DiegoDiego]

we rented a lakefront apartment for a week without pre booking

So you just booked normally then?

[kevthedee]

Scotland bottling it again doesn't bear thinking about

As long as its a democratic "bottling" then I'm sure it will be respected by all [emoji848]

[dirty dingus]

[ayrmad]

23 hours ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I don't think its Scotland bottling it.

Its up to the Independence movement to sell it. Its a bit of an easy out to say if its a No that Scotland bottled it. I think the SNP struggles to connect and speak with those whos votes it needs to turn currently. I hope that changes and like Ive said before I think it needs more people to step up to do that job and some of them shouldnt be in the SNP who do it.

 

Unfortunately, whilst they still haven't produced suitable counter arguments to the difficult questions after all these years, the SNP think they're the only YES show in town, I derived far more enthusiasm for YES from folk not in the SNP last time round than I did from Salmond, Sturgeon or the rest of them. 

Another gubbing incoming if we ever get indyref2 as most like Swinney and Hyslop are just lumps of wood that don't inspire anyone. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by ayrmad

[Dons_1988]

22 hours ago, oaksoft said:

The problem is that the people ARE worried about their pensions, currency and borders at Gretna and they also don't like change.

The SNP haven't addressed enough of those issues sufficiently well. It was a shock to discover that they were so exposed on these things in 2014 and it's infuriating that they are still exposed on these issues today 7 years later. The unionists will just keep gnawing away at that bone and getting direct hits.

Add to that the fact that Yes needs many of these people to switch from No and that won't happen when they are routinely being called anti-Scottish shitebags.

The final insult was Yes claiming the saltire only really belonged to the Yes side and that No voters weren't really true Scots.

That's a pretty toxic combination and will make moving to Yes much more difficult.

There's an idea that No voters will simply die off leaving a Yes majority by default but this is pretty naive. We've been saying that about the Tory vote disappearing for 2 generations now and yet they are more entrenched than ever.

Agree with this. I voted yes in 2014 but it was a leap of faith/heart over head as the key economy questions weren't really answered properly.  

I will vote yes again but I don't think yes wins unless these questions are answered sufficiently. It's also not good enough to call those who vote no to protect their pensions etc shitebags and the like. Yes needs to win the argument properly.

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

Same with me as regards 2014.

Whether I vote Yes again or not will depend on whether I can overcome my principle that having another referendum within 10-15 years of the last isn't respecting the democratic result of the last one. We can't be pleading for respect for democracy on one hand and then ignoring it on the other. So I'm a bit torn on this. I suspect when push comes to shove, I'll go for Yes again but right now I'm not making a decision.

Tbh when the result came out as no in 2014 I found myself absolutely gutted (more than I'd anticipated) but was just glad I'd voted yes as would have had serious regret if I hadn't done so. Holding onto that memory I couldn't bring myself to vote no if the opportunity arose again.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

A second referendum is inevitable, the result of last weeks historic SNP win demands it, those who don't want it will have to like it or lump it.

All well and good, but unless the Yes side provide convincing plans over what's going to happen over currency and pensions, soft-Nos and aren't going to come over to Yes in large enough numbers. Poll numbers are good at the moment imo (50/50 is a good base to start campaigning from), bit with sound plans on financial issues, those numbers could only increase.

We can't rely forever on having an absolute clownshoes PM and sociopathic Tory government forever. Indy needs to be won with a positive campaign on the benefits it will bring, not just on how shite the other lot are.

[Dons_1988]

15 minutes ago, Pato said:

 

Why do you guys think they haven't done a good job of advancing the currency/pensions blah blah stuff? The SGC went down a very specific route in its recommendations and the SNP just seemed to go 'read the SGC' for any questions, which doesn't really cut it in the COVID/Hard brexit world we're in.

I watch a lot of youtube and channels like Kurzgesagt do very good entertaining jobs of explaining very complicated things in 10 minute videos and I'm always surprised this kind of thing never seems to be adopted by political parties to explain how the country would look if we adopted their policies. You could do something similar for party political broadcasts but they always seem to be tugging at the heartstrings things instead of 'here's some snazzy graphics describing options on how we get to [better society], nobody else is offering this'

Is this not just default politics these days? Seems to be the view of parties that the masses aren't really interested in the actual facts. It's probably why project fear was so effective and why Boris loses no support despite just about anything he does, even Trump might have been re-elected had he not made such a farce of his pandemic response.

Unfortunately for the yes movement, they will have no choice but to address the issues with the 'boring' stuff and make it accessible to people who maybe don't fully understand it. No easy task.

Some sort of certainty over access to the EU might be a game changer for them this time round if they could get it.

[BigDoddyKane]

9 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Is this not just default politics these days? Seems to be the view of parties that the masses aren't really interested in the actual facts. It's probably why project fear was so effective and why Boris loses no support despite just about anything he does, even Trump might have been re-elected had he not made such a farce of his pandemic response.

Unfortunately for the yes movement, they will have no choice but to address the issues with the 'boring' stuff and make it accessible to people who maybe don't fully understand it. No easy task.

Some sort of certainty over access to the EU might be a game changer for them this time round if they could get it.

whats the general feeling on that question, is it likely the EU comes out with anything that would clarify this to extent it would make an impact. I wouldnt expect anything to be honest.

As I guess theres pros and cons for EU in doing that and most likley they remain ambiguous 

Im of the feeling what Oaksoft says about own currency is the way forward get that all sorted and clearly described and mapped out timetable wise with answers to the questions those with savings, pensions,  mortgages etc is how to win indy2. Just being so strong and clearly thought out and mapped in this area wins those undecided votes

The EU may or may not say something but we can't rely on that, if it comes its a bonus but this is all about showing we can survive on our own 2 feet over the next 10 years as an independent country outside UK and EU. 

 

[ayrmad]

1 hour ago, SandyCromarty said:

A second referendum is inevitable, the result of last weeks historic SNP win demands it, those who don't want it will have to like it or lump it.

It demanded it at the previous election as well, don't remember them liking or lumping that half-hearted effort, she'll no doubt be hoping this blows over as well. 

[NotThePars]

Agree with this. I voted yes in 2014 but it was a leap of faith/heart over head as the key economy questions weren't really answered properly.  
I will vote yes again but I don't think yes wins unless these questions are answered sufficiently. It's also not good enough to call those who vote no to protect their pensions etc shitebags and the like. Yes needs to win the argument properly.

The blame squarely lies with the cretins that told barefaced lies and understandably scared people about the security of their pension.

[SANTAN]

4 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

It demanded it at the previous election as well, don't remember them liking or lumping that half-hearted effort, she'll no doubt be hoping this blows over as well. 

She's resigning after the pandemic. 

[NotThePars]

She's resigning after the pandemic. 

As long as she does it after May 31st that’s all gravy to me

[ayrmad]

14 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

She's resigning after the pandemic. 

We'll be swapping mahogany for white pine.