When will indyref2 happen?

[Monkey Tennis]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

 

Because one of them is a dull change of administration location and personnel and the other one is about running around in kilts wielding claymores like it's still 1745.

The entire debate about independence needs to be toned right down emotionally, if there is to be any chance of getting to a solid Yes.

I genuinely don't know about this.

I find the flag waving off-putting personally, and I certainly don't think it's a vision of the movement that Sturgeon would want to promote.

At the same time though, I honestly don't know if jettisoning such sentiment in a concerted way would be electorally wise.  

For some, this is about identity and that element probably needs kept onside.  I do worry about any anti-English sense being projected though.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I genuinely don't know about this.

I find the flag waving off-putting personally, and I certainly don't think it's a vision of the movement that Sturgeon would want to promote.

At the same time though, I honestly don't know if jettisoning such sentiment in a concerted way would be electorally wise.  

For some, this is about identity and that element probably needs kept onside.  I do worry about any anti-English sense being projected though.

For people that are worried about no longer being British after Independence: British people should be allowed to carry on getting their British passport whilst Scottish people can get their new Scottish passport. 

[carpetmonster]

1 hour ago, Stormzy said:

This post could have been made in 2011. 

Which illustrates the need to GTFO beautifully. 

[Monkey Tennis]

5 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

For people that are worried about no longer being British after Independence: British people should be allowed to carry on getting their British passport whilst Scottish people can get their new Scottish passport. 

Ok.

Are you coming at the identity argument from the outlook of the other type of flag wavers?  I suppose there could be things like that in place, mirroring in part what happens in Ireland.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

Ok.

Are you coming at the identity argument from the outlook of the other type of flag wavers?  I suppose there could be things like that in place, mirroring in part what happens in Ireland.

Yes, copy Ireland to keep them happy. If they know they are allowed to carry on being British some of them might find Independence more acceptable.

 

[SANTAN]

20 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

Which illustrates the need to GTFO beautifully. 

Or illustrates just how utterly unconvincing that argument seems to be..

[carpetmonster]

5 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

Or illustrates just how utterly unconvincing that argument seems to be..

It’s one of the many arguments that helped support for independence go from ~30 to 45% over the first referendum campaign. 

[SANTAN]

1 minute ago, carpetmonster said:

It’s one of the many arguments that helped support for independence go from ~30 to 45% over the first referendum campaign. 

Well when you get on to it being one of many factors it becomes quite difficult to figure out how much of an effect it actually had. 

I don't think "wait til people get fed up of the Tories" is very compelling and it certainly hasn't been very successful so far, I think a better strategy is needed to achieve independence rather than wishing on a prayer. 

[madwullie]

1 minute ago, Pato said:

Feeling like when you're a kid and you put a wasp and a big spider in a jam jar reading the last few pages. Marvellous.

Played hide and seek mainly myself tbh m8 

[carpetmonster]

3 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

Well when you get on to it being one of many factors it becomes quite difficult to figure out how much of an effect it actually had. 

I don't think "wait til people get fed up of the Tories" is very compelling and it certainly hasn't been very successful so far, I think a better strategy is needed to achieve independence rather than wishing on a prayer. 

I think it’s a bigger factor now than then; in 2011 Labour being able to win general elections was fresh in everyone’s mind. Currently I’d be surprised if they win another one before 3011. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by carpetmonster

[SANTAN]

4 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

I think it’s a bigger factor now than then; in 2011 Labour being able to win general elections was fresh in everyone’s mind. Currently I’d be surprised if they win another one before 3011. 

We shall see. I'm hoping Canzuk will cheer everybody up. 

[SANTAN]

1 minute ago, Pato said:

I was idly looking at whats involved in moving to NZ as I tick a lot of in-demand profession stuff so should be able to sail through the process, but jesus christ unless you're going to drop $500,000+ on a house over there you're looking at living in an earthquake damaged tin shack with a single stove for heat.

Aside from the scenery I don't think there's much to entice me, I didn't realise the living prices were that high, i always presumed it was cheap. Isn't Australia relativley low cost of living? 

I just want the Canada access tbh. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I agree with that.
She campaigned on that platform and she is bound to it if she gets approval from Westminster.
Having said that though, there's no suggestion at all that she would do otherwise.
Covid needs sorting first though.
Realistically we'll be looking at next year but we'll need to see. She won't go whilst there are ongoing covid restrictions of any kind IMO.

I think 2023 is the earliest they could realistically have it.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I know the consensus is that demographics will always push indy closer but I do get the impression that the longer things drag on, people solidify on their viewpoint and the no of swing voters reduces.

At the moment, those swing voters are only really hearing a vision from independence from unionist figures and the SNP are having a totally different argument and not really engaging with the specifics. The longer they go without a formal campaign, the attack lines on important issues are drawn without them.

There's a lot the indy campaign has in favour right now and I'm pretty skeptical it'll ever be at a point where you're going into a formal campaign with 55-60% of people polling in favour for indy and feeling like it's a sure thing.

Get the referendum and date sorted ASAP then let the campaign begin.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I'm liking the new improved Oaksoft

[Binos]

18 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

I  would say that 2023 would be the right time for a referendum.

The pandemic has to be dealt with and the economy.

The tory government is on a massive high at the moment and think that they can get away with anything, but as past tory governments have shown us when they are on this there will be a multitude of scandals to come, plus the effects of Brexit as it hits industry and prices soaring accordingly will bring them back down to earth as the fickle public turns against them.

Then that will be the right time.  

The pandemic will leave a debt tsunami that will take 10 years to sort

[btb]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Sigh!

You're about as annoying on here as you are on BAWA.

Away and play with someone else.

You're the one who said "the entire debate about independence needs to be toned right down emotionally" with which I agree and then contradicted yourself by also saying "running around in kilts wielding claymores like it's still 1745" in the same post. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by btb

[Monkey Tennis]

19 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Anyone else noticed that 'Great Britain' has become a non title, we seldom hear it on the news and print media, 'United Kingdom' is the now buzz title with the emphasis on United by the tory government.

 

For talk of the Union, the idea of the United Kingdom is the only one that makes sense, not just linguistically.

Great Britain is just this island.

[Monkey Tennis]

37 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

I think it’s a bigger factor now than then; in 2011 Labour being able to win general elections was fresh in everyone’s mind. Currently I’d be surprised if they win another one before 3011. 

Correct.  

Brexit is obviously the biggest change, but it's well worth remembering that at the time of our last referendum in 2014, the Tories were in power, only by virtue of a coalition with the Lib Dems.  In the 2015 GE which followed, it came as a surprise when Cameron was able to form a government of his own.

The climate was therefore very different to now, when we have a yet more hideous version of a Tory government, in what looks like an unassailable position.

You'd imagine that should have an impact.

[Miguel Sanchez]

2 hours ago, Pato said:

I was idly looking at whats involved in moving to NZ as I tick a lot of in-demand profession stuff so should be able to sail through the process, but jesus christ unless you're going to drop $500,000+ on a house over there you're looking at living in an earthquake damaged tin shack with a single stove for heat.

I believe @jamamafegan may be able to help