When will indyref2 happen?

[ayrmad]

2 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Moi?

I honestly don't care, and that also applies to today's press if you take a look.

It means nothing in the grand scheme of things and only yourself and Ayrmad are in a frenzy over a non story.

Move on to the next supposed political scandal, nothing to see here.

No frenzy, just acknowledging the error of my ways, I now appreciate why 'unionists' view independence supporters as being part of a cult. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

On 04/04/2021 at 14:07, DeeTillEhDeh said:

No surprise that the "journalist" pushing this, John Ferguson, has previous for this sort of nonsense.

As Tom Gordon says:

"Some background on that 'SNP fraud' story...

Man reads about SNP accounts on Wings.

Man tells police what he's read, adding nothing.

Police dutifully take notes.

Man tells Wings a police car was at FM's house three days later (hardly unusual)."

So few kinda obvious but crucial points. Police cars are absolutely at the FM’s house quite a lot as she gets a lot of threats etc. This notion that a police car was there for 8 hours as her and PM were ‘questioned’ seems to be complete bollocks. If for no other reason than a suspect person in a criminal investigation cannot be questioned under caution in such an interview without being taken to a police station and afforded rights of access to a solicitor. The days of a quick q&a in a notebook are gone. Further to that, no uniform police officers would be sent out to investigate a £600k allegation of fraud, there are qualified police officers who are trained financial investigators, the solemn limit in most fraud cases is £35k, so again struggling to buy this. 

[Antlion]

11 hours ago, ayrmad said:

No frenzy, just acknowledging the error of my ways, I now appreciate why 'unionists' view independence supporters as being part of a cult. 

A bit rich if they do, given unionism appears to be based on blind belief in an abnormal constitutional setup, with worshippers who prize a head of state they think was divinely appointed; which demands a hatred of outsiders and the other; and which has managed to collectively forget that the “union” it refers to was already shattered in the 1920s. It looks to me very much like “unionism” is just a crazy, state-authorised religion enforced from the top, which would - if it could get away with it - burn as heretics anyone who dares question it. Unionism, like most blind faith religions, is a cult on a grand scale, with crackpots like Arlene Foster, Sammy Wilson, and Murdo Fraser as its preachers, Lizzie Windsor as its idol, and Boris Johnson as its current Grand Wizard.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Antlion

[strichener]

1 hour ago, Antlion said:

A bit rich if they do, given unionism appears to be based on blind belief in an abnormal constitutional setup, with worshippers who prize a head of state they think was divinely appointed; which demands a hatred of outsiders and the other; and which has managed to collectively forget that the “union” it refers to was already shattered in the 1920s. It looks to me very much like “unionism” is just a crazy, state-authorised religion enforced from the top, which would - if it could get away with it - burn as heretics anyone who dares question it. Unionism, like most blind faith religions, is a cult on a grand scale, with crackpots like Arlene Foster, Sammy Wilson, and Murdo Fraser as its preachers, Lizzie Windsor as its idol, and Boris Johnson as its current Grand Wizard.

What is/was the SNP position on the monarchy?  Looks like they want the status quo but replacing unionism with nationalism with their own set of crackpots.

[Antlion]

33 minutes ago, strichener said:

What is/was the SNP position on the monarchy?  Looks like they want the status quo but replacing unionism with nationalism with their own set of crackpots.

As you already know, it’s appallingly monarchist, which is why I wouldn’t vote for them in an independent Scotland. I wouldn’t want to give them the chance to install crackpots anywhere, but I’m only one voter; in an independent Scotland, it would be up to all of us living here to have our say on whether we want to vote on the opportunity to choose our head of state or have aristocrats in another nation breed one for us. That would be one of many things we can vote in parties willing to give us a say on. Incidentally, I’m not sure the SNP want to replace “unionism” with nationalism, but UK nationalism with Scottish nationalism. The former lost ties with any pretence of having a positive attitude to political union in 2016.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Antlion

[SANTAN]

11 hours ago, Antlion said:

A bit rich if they do, given unionism appears to be based on blind belief in an abnormal constitutional setup, with worshippers who prize a head of state they think was divinely appointed; which demands a hatred of outsiders and the other; and which has managed to collectively forget that the “union” it refers to was already shattered in the 1920s. It looks to me very much like “unionism” is just a crazy, state-authorised religion enforced from the top, which would - if it could get away with it - burn as heretics anyone who dares question it. Unionism, like most blind faith religions, is a cult on a grand scale, with crackpots like Arlene Foster, Sammy Wilson, and Murdo Fraser as its preachers, Lizzie Windsor as its idol, and Boris Johnson as its current Grand Wizard.

 

You've been watching too many cartoons.

[strichener]

13 hours ago, Antlion said:

As you already know, it’s appallingly monarchist, which is why I wouldn’t vote for them in an independent Scotland. I wouldn’t want to give them the chance to install crackpots anywhere, but I’m only one voter; in an independent Scotland, it would be up to all of us living here to have our say on whether we want to vote on the opportunity to choose our head of state or have aristocrats in another nation breed one for us. That would be one of many things we can vote in parties willing to give us a say on. Incidentally, I’m not sure the SNP want to replace “unionism” with nationalism, but UK nationalism with Scottish nationalism. The former lost ties with any pretence of having a positive attitude to political union in 2016.

I keep hearing all these people that won't be voting SNP once we gain independence all with different reasons.  Unless there are about 500 single issue parties then I think the SNP will continue to hoover up the votes on the "they're better than the alternatives" basis.

[SandyCromarty]

I saw on another thread that a tory leaflet mentions Independence and Referendum nearly 40 times.

We Scots are repeatedly told that by the Barnet Formula we get far more money per head of population than any part of the uk, and we are costing the uk government billions.

Can any unionist honestly answer this basic question, that if Scotland is costing england so much why is there this absolute uk government tory hysteria against Independence, why not let us go and save money?

And don't come back with sentimentality and historic ties as this tory government is only concerned about money.

Edited April 7, 2021 by SandyCromarty

[101]

1 hour ago, SandyCromarty said:

I saw on another thread that a tory leaflet mentions Independence and Referendum nearly 40 times.

We Scots are repeatedly told that by the Barnet Formula we get far more money per head of population than any part of the uk, and we are costing the uk government billions.

Can any unionist honestly answer this basic question, that if Scotland is costing england so much why is there this absolute uk government tory hysteria against Independence, why not let us go and save money?

And don't come back with sentimentality and historic ties as this tory government is only concerned about money.

Northern Ireland get far more per head of population...

But the point still stands.

[strichener]

17 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

I saw on another thread that a tory leaflet mentions Independence and Referendum nearly 40 times.

We Scots are repeatedly told that by the Barnet Formula we get far more money per head of population than any part of the uk, and we are costing the uk government billions.

Can any unionist honestly answer this basic question, that if Scotland is costing england so much why is there this absolute uk government tory hysteria against Independence, why not let us go and save money?

And don't come back with sentimentality and historic ties as this tory government is only concerned about money.

If the last year had thought us anything about the UK and money it is that any subsidy that we get is less than beer money to the UK.

[SandyCromarty]

21 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

I saw on another thread that a tory leaflet mentions Independence and Referendum nearly 40 times.

We Scots are repeatedly told that by the Barnet Formula we get far more money per head of population than any part of the uk, and we are costing the uk government billions.

Can any unionist honestly answer this basic question, that if Scotland is costing england so much why is there this absolute uk government tory hysteria against Independence, why not let us go and save money?

And don't come back with sentimentality and historic ties as this tory government is only concerned about money.

No unionist response to my valid question as to why the unionists want to hold onto Scotland when the Scotland gets far too much money from westminster compared to the rest of the uk.

 Yoons instead of red spotting this try and give a reasonably honest answer.

If you can.

Edited April 8, 2021 by SandyCromarty

[Antlion]

5 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

No unionist response to my valid question as to why the unionists want to hold onto Scotland when the Scotland gets far too much money from westminster compared to the rest of the uk.

 Yoons instead of red spotting this try and give a reasonably honest answer.

If you can.

A mutual love of poppies?

[Dawson Park Boy]

25 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

No unionist response to my valid question as to why the unionists want to hold onto Scotland when the Scotland gets far too much money from westminster compared to the rest of the uk.

 Yoons instead of red spotting this try and give a reasonably honest answer.

If you can.

Sandy - I would guess that a majority in England would happily see the back of us but it’s us, Scottish unionists, who want to stay part of the UK. I’m not going into all of it here but, for me, I just feel British, feel that the UK is one country and brings great advantages to us.

I also have friends, kith and kin in England and don’t want to create unnecessary barriers. Loved British history, warts and all, the Empire, the East India company, the culture, literature, music, everything that’s British. Not fussed by the Royal  family but creates a lot of interest.

There you are - a straightforward honest answer. If independence happens, then, okay, I’ll just have to live with it.

No doubt you’ll be happy to have another referendum after a few years?

[Antlion]

11 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Sandy - I would guess that a majority in England would happily see the back of us but it’s us, Scottish unionists, who want to stay part of the UK. I’m not going into all of it here but, for me, I just feel British, feel that the UK is one country and brings great advantages to us.

I also have friends, kith and kin in England and don’t want to create unnecessary barriers. Loved British history, warts and all, the Empire, the East India company, the culture, literature, music, everything that’s British. Not fussed by the Royal  family but creates a lot of interest.

There you are - a straightforward honest answer. If independence happens, then, okay, I’ll just have to live with it.

No doubt you’ll be happy to have another referendum after a few years?

Cant speak for Sandy, but I’d be very much amused to see a party of self-loathing Scots push for a referendum and arguing that we should cease to exist as a nation state and be adopted as a region of England and Wales. The laughter at them across the world would be deafening (and I somehow doubt would see regionalist uprising as Portuguese folk suddenly see their future as being absorbed by Spain; Danes fight to fold their parliament and become a minor region governed from Oslo; Belgians seek to dissolve their country and merge as a minor part of France). So aye, in the event of Scotland achieving independence, do go ahead and agitate to give it up and return to regional British status (if England and Wales would have us). It’ll be really funny. 

[SANTAN]

1 hour ago, SandyCromarty said:

No unionist response to my valid question as to why the unionists want to hold onto Scotland when the Scotland gets far too much money from westminster compared to the rest of the uk.

 Yoons instead of red spotting this try and give a reasonably honest answer.

If you can.

Why would you get a reasonably honest answer when you scurry off after making dishonest claims and these get pointed out? 

[oneteaminglasgow]

29 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

don’t want to create unnecessary barriers. 

Aren’t you a massive Brexiteer?

[BFTD]

2 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Cant speak for Sandy, but I’d be very much amused to see a party of self-loathing Scots push for a referendum and arguing that we should cease to exist as a nation state and be adopted as a region of England and Wales.

Plenty of unionists would like to do that now, but worry that it would bite them on the arse by showing that we are, in fact, already a country capable of self-determination, and able to throw a referendum to decide our fate whenever we feel like it.

That, and it would be a humiliating defeat.

[Dawson Park Boy]

19 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Aren’t you a massive Brexiteer?

‘Unnecessary’ is the word.

Regarding the EU, it was necessary. They are not kith and kin.

[Antlion]

2 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

‘Unnecessary’ is the word.

Regarding the EU, it was necessary. They are not kith and kin.

I’ve got family born and raised in France. Your argument is as xenophobic, inward, and insular as ... well, Brexit. By the way, I’m sure the majority of normal English folk don’t give a flying f**k what Scottish “unionists” think - probably, they view your gang of misfits as more akin to the knuckle-dragging embarrassments currently breaking windows in Northern Ireland than “kith and kin” to themselves. So, you know, it might be worth considering that your blood-and-soil, nineteenth-century ideas of love and loyalty to Mother Britannia aren’t shared by the people whose boots you long to lick.

[oneteaminglasgow]

10 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

‘Unnecessary’ is the word.

Regarding the EU, it was necessary. They are not kith and kin.

I mean, I was really just having a cheap shot to amuse myself, but thanks for outing yourself, once again, as a huge bigot.