Erih Shtrep Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, Stinky Bone said: If the court action returns an "ultra vires" verdict in what way can the Scottish Government up the ante? Please explain. If the court returns Ultra Vires ( which it will ) Nicola Sturgeon would have preferred it didn't take place. No point arriving at the negotiation table if you know you've nothing in your basket. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erih Shtrep Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Stinky Bone said: We always have something in our basket. Why would it return ultra vires. The three law experts I've heard talking about it including @Ad Lib on here believe it's the likely outcome. If you have reasons to doubt them then let's be hearing it. Edited January 16, 2021 by Erih Shtrep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 If the court returns a judgement that the Scottish people do not have the right to hold a referendum to determine their political future, then surely any notion of "union" is over. What we will be left with is occupation and subjugation. Surely any self respecting Scottish unionists would oppose this also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Stinky Bone said: There is a court case on Thursday to determine if the Scottish people have a right to hold a referendum without westminster permission. What's this? Haven't heard anything about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, git-intae-thum said: "self respecting" "Scottish unionists" Think i'm seeing the flaw here tbh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Is it just me that thinks this court case is a really bad idea? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Is it just me that thinks this court case is a really bad idea? Possibly.....but it would stand a much greater chance of success had the full weight of Scotgov had been behind it, employing the best legal minds. It's almost as though they don't want independence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Is it just me that thinks this court case is a really bad idea? The only possible positive if we lose the case is that it will confirm our colonial status. That might convince a few soft "No's" that we are currently in an undemocratic situation. If we win, it makes it harder for Westminster to oppose the democratic will of the Scottish electorate. I'm not currently convinced that it is the best option at this time, considering that a Holyrood election is imminent. It might have been better to have delayed for 6 months or so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, git-intae-thum said: Possibly.....but it would stand a much greater chance of success had the full weight of Scotgov had been behind it, employing the best legal minds. It's almost as though they don't want independence One of the more batshit crazy notions in Scottish politics right now - and that's a tough competition - is the idea that the present Scottish Government don't want independence. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 People's Action?Jesus wept. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Is it just me that thinks this court case is a really bad idea? I personally think its nuts.If they have not prepared well - an absolutely watertight case - they will lose.This looks like the back of an envelope mewlings of bunch of deluded arseholes. It just gives ammo to the Unionists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, lichtgilphead said: The only possible positive if we lose the case is that it will confirm our colonial status. This phrase is doing the rounds on various 'social media' places. Disappointed to see it on P&B - but seeing as it's you it doesn't come as a surprise. To edit:. I was listening to 'open all mics' earlier and the correspondent at Palmerston today talked about 'an equaliser for The Lichties' but pronounced it as 'Lishties'.. That is how ignorant Sturgeon's Scotland has become. Edited January 17, 2021 by The_Kincardine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: To edit:. I was listening to 'open all mics' earlier and the correspondent at Palmerston today talked about 'an equaliser for The Lichties' but pronounced it as 'Lishties'.. That is how ignorant Sturgeon's Scotland has become. Do we know that this "correspondent" is a supporter of "Sturgeon's Scotland"...? "Lishties"...... That's almost as ignorant as calling Scots people Scotch! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Derek Ferguson reported from Palmerston and oh, the perils of a youth misspent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 8 hours ago, git-intae-thum said: Possibly.....but it would stand a much greater chance of success had the full weight of Scotgov had been behind it, employing the best legal minds. It's almost as though they don't want independence It's a terrible idea that fails to appreciate that legal ambiguity on this issue can create a space to work in, or at the very least losing the case is worse than not having fought it at all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 8 hours ago, git-intae-thum said: Possibly.....but it would stand a much greater chance of success had the full weight of Scotgov had been behind it, employing the best legal minds. It's almost as though they don't want independence So it's possibly a really bad idea that you would like the government to throw resources at 6 months before a very important election? And somehow it's the SG that people think don't want independence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) So, the option of a non s30 referendum... there are three outcomes for the People Action 1) Fight the case and win 2) Don't fight the case 3) Fight the case and lose. The Scottish government clearly doesn't favour such a course of action but it remains an option they could utilise. That is true whether the case is fought and won, or not fought at all. It'd be up to the UK government to challenge the result legally after the fact which would clearly be linked to the political issues if it returned a solid Yes vote on the back of a legitimate level of turnout. It would look like the UK using mealy mouthed legal tactics to overturn a legitimate decision by the Scottish people. They wouldn't be able able to effectively fight it. So, really there doesn't on the face of it, seem to be much advantage of winning the case over not fighting it at all. Whereas losing it (assuming the court decides the case has Standing it might not get that far), removes the option entirely and ironically actually forces the SNP further down the narrow route of an S30. Edited January 17, 2021 by renton 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRocketman II Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 6 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: To edit:. I was listening to 'open all mics' earlier and the correspondent at Palmerston today talked about 'an equaliser for The Lichties' but pronounced it as 'Lishties'.. That is how ignorant Sturgeon's Scotland has become. 1 hour ago, ICTJohnboy said: Do we know that this "correspondent" is a supporter of "Sturgeon's Scotland"...? "Lishties"...... That's almost as ignorant as calling Scots people Scotch! 45 minutes ago, sophia said: Derek Ferguson reported from Palmerston and oh, the perils of a youth misspent Ha - Derek Ferguson, who was "educated" in Scotland in the 70s and early 80s under Westminster Labour and Tory Governments, mispronounces something in 2021 and it is clear evidence of the SNP failing Scotland. I think that on a nut shell captures the strength of this particular poster's arguments. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said: Ha - Derek Ferguson, who was "educated" in Scotland in the 70s and early 80s under Westminster Labour and Tory Governments, What a silly wee Natter you are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRocketman II Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, The_Kincardine said: What a silly wee Natter you are. only one true nationalist on here and you're a huge Natter 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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