When will indyref2 happen?

[Guest Jedi]

1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

There will be thousands of them

Quite, but tens of thousands I would imagine.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Just now, Jedi said:

Quite, but tens of thousands I would imagine.

Enough to put a serious dent in any post indy snp vote.

[oneteaminglasgow]

4 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Quite, but tens of thousands I would imagine.

Aye, there’s surely an absolutely massive amount of single issue voters on both sides, who just go with either the SNP or whichever of the 3 unionist parties is most likely to beat them.

[Guest Jedi]

Ultimately, I would love to see the Scottish people being offered a 'proper' choice...between full Independence on the one hand, and 'real' devolution (essentially FFA, with only defence and foreign affairs retained at a 'Parliament of the 4 nations', which replaces the House of Lords), not some half baked 'vow' thought up at the last minute, but devolution where Scotland has full fiscal control, and decision making on all issues, apart from the only decision in the two mentioned.Meanwhile representatives from London, Belfast, Edinburgh and Cardiff (elected) sit in the 'new' chamber maybe 4 times a year to discuss issues of mutual interest.

'If' that prospectus could be put on a ballot it would offer a much wider debate than the current indy or status quo.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

54 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/its-year-leigh-turned-tory-19437264

These folk will all be clinging on by the next election and I'd think it quite unlikely they'll be philosophical about the consequence of their choice after 4 years of getting Brexit good and hard when it comes to stepping into the ballot box once more.

Its fucking mental reading this ‘they’ve done a good job’ says Maureen who’s delighted at all the tory donors getting billions for nothing, all the while Maureen’s determination to ‘get brexit done’ will lead to Leigh’s high street continuing to die. These people are swayed by nothing other than soundbites and are a damning indication that the human race is fucking doomed. 

[DublinMagyar]

Ultimately, I would love to see the Scottish people being offered a 'proper' choice...between full Independence on the one hand, and 'real' devolution (essentially FFA, with only defence and foreign affairs retained at a 'Parliament of the 4 nations', which replaces the House of Lords), not some half baked 'vow' thought up at the last minute, but devolution where Scotland has full fiscal control, and decision making on all issues, apart from the only decision in the two mentioned.Meanwhile representatives from London, Belfast, Edinburgh and Cardiff (elected) sit in the 'new' chamber maybe 4 times a year to discuss issues of mutual interest.
'If' that prospectus could be put on a ballot it would offer a much wider debate than the current indy or status quo.

I'd like Partick Thistle to win the Champions League

[DublinMagyar]

Or even the Championship

[John Lambies Doos]

Or even the Championship

Or even the 1st Division.........

[Guest Jedi]

Time will tell...for both 

[The_Kincardine]

1 hour ago, Stormzy said:

I've come round to the same conclusion as yourself and to be fair you may have missed it  but I did apologise for the post in which you quoted. 

That's what we reasonable posters do...

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Fair play@The_Kincardine. Don't agree with your political views but some of the abuse you get on here is most certainly unmerited.
Happy Christmas m8.

Mostly it's absolutely fine and I reciprocate in kind.  So, much like our refereeing calls, "It balances itself out".

A few arses take it too far but they are not the sort of blokes you'd ever meet in a social setting so it's water aff a dug's back.

Best wishes to you and yours for a better 2021, buddy.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

16 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Ultimately, I would love to see the Scottish people being offered a 'proper' choice...between full Independence on the one hand, and 'real' devolution (essentially FFA, with only defence and foreign affairs retained at a 'Parliament of the 4 nations', which replaces the House of Lords), not some half baked 'vow' thought up at the last minute, but devolution where Scotland has full fiscal control, and decision making on all issues, apart from the only decision in the two mentioned.Meanwhile representatives from London, Belfast, Edinburgh and Cardiff (elected) sit in the 'new' chamber maybe 4 times a year to discuss issues of mutual interest.

'If' that prospectus could be put on a ballot it would offer a much wider debate than the current indy or status quo.

Heres why that will never happen. English politicians are currently committing the biggest act of political and economic self harm in modern history essentially borne out of their exceptionalist mindset. Now you try to envisage them accepting parity with Scotland or Wales when they currently seem to demand that Germany and France view them as superiors? The above has about as much happening as Michael Barrymore becoming the head of interpol. 

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

8 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

9 hours ago, GTG_03 said:

Can't see it, labour could be polling single digits and they'd still be shouting about devomax. It's in their DNA now and they think the public are too stupid to remember that they shat all over the devolution talks straight after the referendum.

Yeh, perhaps the branch office won't, but you may find some high level defectors when the penny finally drops

Richard Leonard perhaps? And the takes over SNP leadership?

[ICTJohnboy]

9 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

Richard Leonard perhaps? And the takes over SNP leadership?

FFS, that's got me choking over my cornflakes.

[Academically Deficient]

6 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Staunchness and solidarity eh?

Would make a good slogan for a left wing Rangers supporters group.

Friedrich Engels Loyal RSC. @G51

"Oh the cry was dialectical materialism.

Control the means of production or you'll die"

[NotThePars]

It's the common refrain of 'the last labour guy [who was in opposition] did nothing for the area' that's most terrifying.

I haven’t really seen many people at a national level acknowledge that part of the reason why Labour continue to lose and why they will lose the next election is because their councils are uniformly dreadful.

Tory austerity has crippled this country but Labour councils have mostly happily implemented the cuts and they’re the first point of reference for these communities. You can blame Davie Cameron, Theresa May, or Boris Johnson but when your library is shut, your streets are a mess, and there’s one bus turning up an hour (and it’s filthy) then it’s usually a Labour councillor who’s the first point of reference and they’ve done nothing to resist this state of affairs.

Even look at it up here. The three most famous incidents I can think of involving Labour councillors were the Aberdeen group going into coalition with the Tories (with the new Deputy Leader of the Scottish party running on a platform of reinstating them), Frank McAveety being so crooked that River City on the Hated BBC directly lifted the scandal for a storyline, and finally the one unequivocally good Labour councillor, Matt Kerr, walking out a budget vote because he couldn’t countenance further cuts and being slaughtered by his own colleagues for virtue signalling!

I don’t think left of centre councillors have many options here FWIW but it’s no wonder that Corbyn’s (sincerely held) politics are viewed with suspicion in communities whose experiences of Labour continue to be so shit. It’s also why I think the party is finished up here. It’s not a matter of the SNP imploding or running out of steam and Labour picking up the disillusioned voters. People up here don’t have any really any positive association with the party and they’re complete resistant to changing the path of decline they’ve been on for 3-4 decades.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

The shite local level stuff will very much be part of the strategy in the next GE for the tories in the north of England. I'd guess that they'll run a mixture of the Goldsmith and Bailey campaigns for London mayor. A combination of appeals to bigotry and outright lying/shifting blame.

Blame the devolved administrations and labour councils for the post brexit and coronavirus shitfest.

'We won you a glorious brexit, but your local labour council have ruined it by closing the library in favour of building muslim transgender toilets'

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Yeh, perhaps the branch office won't, but you may find some high level defectors when the penny finally drops

My money is on Henry McLeish and Kezia Dugdale.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I haven’t really seen many people at a national level acknowledge that part of the reason why Labour continue to lose and why they will lose the next election is because their councils are uniformly dreadful.

Tory austerity has crippled this country but Labour councils have mostly happily implemented the cuts and they’re the first point of reference for these communities. You can blame Davie Cameron, Theresa May, or Boris Johnson but when your library is shut, your streets are a mess, and there’s one bus turning up an hour (and it’s filthy) then it’s usually a Labour councillor who’s the first point of reference and they’ve done nothing to resist this state of affairs.

Even look at it up here. The three most famous incidents I can think of involving Labour councillors were the Aberdeen group going into coalition with the Tories (with the new Deputy Leader of the Scottish party running on a platform of reinstating them), Frank McAveety being so crooked that River City on the Hated BBC directly lifted the scandal for a storyline, and finally the one unequivocally good Labour councillor, Matt Kerr, walking out a budget vote because he couldn’t countenance further cuts and being slaughtered by his own colleagues for virtue signalling!

I don’t think left of centre councillors have many options here FWIW but it’s no wonder that Corbyn’s (sincerely held) politics are viewed with suspicion in communities whose experiences of Labour continue to be so shit. It’s also why I think the party is finished up here. It’s not a matter of the SNP imploding or running out of steam and Labour picking up the disillusioned voters. People up here don’t have any really any positive association with the party and they’re complete resistant to changing the path of decline they’ve been on for 3-4 decades.

Labour still has a major issue in some constituencies of families running their own personal fiefdoms and jobs for the boys.

[SANTAN]

11 hours ago, Academically Deficient said:

I'm confused as to why a genuine Labour supporter would ever for vote for the Tories. Is staying in a Union governed by people who despise your values more important than seeing your values put into practice? Genuine question. 

If this is referring to me I wouldn't say I align to any political party, I've been raised Labour and prefer them generally speaking when they're not run by someone like Corbyn, I don't believe that Conservatives despise my values at all, I certainly feel like some SNP types do though. Maintaining the Union is certainly the main issue that would swing my vote, funny that a bunch of people who probably vote along Indy lines are trying to say it's fickle to vote for single issue things. Lol.

[John Lambies Doos]

My money is on Henry McLeish and Kezia Dugdale.

Yeh, but been thinking that for ages now but just not happening.
Certainly won't be Jackie Baillie