When will indyref2 happen?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

46 minutes ago, Crùbag said:

Smart move by Nic. How often is Scotland portrayed on the world stage like this?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18854615.watch-nicola-sturgeon-quoted-world-leader-nbc-news-election-report/

 

All for this as it'll have the worst people absolutely seething.

Edited November 7, 2020 by Henderson to deliver .....
Stormzy red dot makes my point perfectly.

[NotThePars]

Willing to be lumped in with the worst people by laughing at how tinpot that is. The National is so good.

[Bairnardo]

Willing to be lumped in with the worst people by laughing at how tinpot that is. The National is so good.

It's the front of the paper equivalent of "Paolo Maldini claims the atmosphere at Ibrox/Parkhead is the greatest in Europe" type shite.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Willing to be lumped in with the worst people by laughing at how tinpot that is. The National is so good.

I was kind of meaning this sort of reaction tbf.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/nicola-sturgeon-no-jacinda-ardern-no-matter-what-some-snp-supporters-think-alex-cole-hamilton-msp-3008999

The SNP/Lib Dem/Labour 3 bald men fighting over a comb act to see who is most like the foreign 'progressive' flavour of the month.

[NotThePars]

59 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

I was kind of meaning this sort of reaction tbf.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/nicola-sturgeon-no-jacinda-ardern-no-matter-what-some-snp-supporters-think-alex-cole-hamilton-msp-3008999

The SNP/Lib Dem/Labour 3 bald men fighting over a comb act to see who is most like the foreign 'progressive' flavour of the month.

What does Alex Cole Hamilton know or understand about the international Labour movement lol

[D Angelo Barksdale]

43 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

What does Alex Cole Hamilton know or understand about the international Labour movement lol

Has a long history of it in his family.

Being serious though, I agree that the reaction of 

by the National and sections of the SNP/Yes anytime someone vaguely important mentions Scotland or Sturgeon, is at best cringeworthy af. 

Imo totally worth it for the seethe generated by the Cole Hamiltons of the world though.

[Crùbag]

1 hour ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Has a long history of it in his family.

Being serious though, I agree that the reaction of 

by the National and sections of the SNP/Yes anytime someone vaguely important mentions Scotland or Sturgeon, is at best cringeworthy af. 

Imo totally worth it for the seethe generated by the Cole Hamiltons of the world though.

Brits will Brit.

[invergowrie arab]

On 06/11/2020 at 21:33, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

SNP confirmed quite a lot of their candidates for May 2021 today. Got to say looking at the list in and around the west of Scotland in particular its not very inspiring? 

Chris McEleny isn't there and that's the main thing 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

9 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Chris McEleny isn't there and that's the main thing 

Without a doubt he’s fucking awful, an absolutely despicably bad candidate. 

[Ira Gaines]

2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Without a doubt he’s fucking awful, an absolutely despicably bad candidate. 

I'd honestly have been considering my vote if he got in here.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

22 minutes ago, Andre Drazen said:

I'd honestly have been considering my vote if he got in here.

If people like him, Cherry and Angus got what seems to be their wish to launch a coup on the SNP id really struggle to vote for indy given just how awful those people are. 

[SandyCromarty]

32 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

If people like him, Cherry and Angus got what seems to be their wish to launch a coup on the SNP id really struggle to vote for indy given just how awful those people are. 

Any political party or group of people, consider workplaces, have dissenters and moaners.

For the cause of Independence the Ship is mightier than the crew and putting individuals to one side the end justifies the means regardless of personalities.

[git-intae-thum]

16 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Chris McEleny isn't there and that's the main thing 

 

6 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Without a doubt he’s fucking awful, an absolutely despicably bad candidate. 

 

6 hours ago, Andre Drazen said:

I'd honestly have been considering my vote if he got in here.

 

5 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

If people like him, Cherry and Angus got what seems to be their wish to launch a coup on the SNP id really struggle to vote for indy given just how awful those people are. 

 

5 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

 

Some seriously strong condemnation here.

I am curious......apart from the crime of giving the appearance of wishing independence more than Sturgeon.......what have these very capable SNP politicians done?

Edited November 9, 2020 by git-intae-thum
Typo

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

57 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

 

 

 

 

Some seriously strong condemnation here.

I am curious......apart from the crime of giving the appearance of wishing independence more than Sturgeon.......what have these very capable SNP politicians done?

You mean a man who condemned trident but is quite happy to be an on site electrician at coulport? Or a man widely reported to be sympathetic to terrorist groups? Stick his name in google and see some of his gaffes. Also look at the thread on the Morton board where hes basically just seen as a laughing stock. 

[DA Baracus]

7 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

If people like him, Cherry and Angus got what seems to be their wish to launch a coup on the SNP id really struggle to vote for indy given just how awful those people are. 

Really? A bizarre stance. You'd want Scotland to not be able to run its own affairs and not be forced in to shite like leaving the EU against the will of the electorate just because there are are some shite SNP politicians? Yet you'd be happy for all manner of Tory scum to tell us to to eat our cereal forevermore? The same shower of evil who vote to starve children and give away contracts to their pals for fun?

There isn't going to ever be a single party where there aren't shite politicians. The SNP won't be in power forever in an Independent Scotland, and should the 'coup' you mention happen those noted won't be running things forever either.

Were they to take over an SNP government in Scotland and were shit, we'd at least be able to vote on our own future, including the possibility of getting them punted. Right now our votes hardly mean a thing save for the Scottish Parliament elections.

[NotThePars]

10 minutes ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

Don't know if I'd go as far as not voting for independence but if the reactionary wing of the party ever took charge then the prospectus for independence would be significantly worse and I don't think it helps to ignore that.

Of course there is the flip side of that as well - the fact that the establishment wing of the party is also unsatisfactory. People like Andrew Wilson, Angus Robertson and the like are equally unlikely to help create an inspiring reason to vote yes. Couple this with the fact that all the major fault lines seem to be on culture war stuff like trans rights, on which the leadership is at least nominally on the progressive side, and it's hard to see where the space is for proper left wing pressure in the party. 

There is a basic impulse in the party that is sympathetic to being a bit more radical on loads of issues. Unfortunately the nature of our party means that often is not channelled towards good left wing politics but baseless bullshit from self-serving narcissists looking to raise their profile (and using our bizarre cottage industry of independent media, blogs and the national to do so). 

Of course - all of this does hint at another good reason for independence. If the political parties ever realigned to have a proper left/right divide as opposed to yes/no, we'd be able to have ideologically coherent parties and fight the real battles. In that sense, the real fear with independence is that we do an Ireland - have 100 years of alternating rule between 2 centrist/centre right nationalist parties based on a relatively obscure fissure in the independence movement at the moment of its greatest triumph. 

Can't wait to have 20 years of cosy Third Way consensus while we all fellate ourselves that at least we aren't gleefully persecuting minorities like our brothers down south. No, the GRA will still not be passed.

Edited November 9, 2020 by NotThePars

[git-intae-thum]

12 minutes ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

Hi Chris

Hiya

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Kind of like Ronny Delia's Celtic, just coasting to title wins with 1 or 2 decent players and a bunch of empty jerseys, because the rest are utter fucking dogshit, meanwhile the fans just argue amongst themselves.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 hour ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

Don't know if I'd go as far as not voting for independence but if the reactionary wing of the party ever took charge then the prospectus for independence would be significantly worse and I don't think it helps to ignore that.

Of course there is the flip side of that as well - the fact that the establishment wing of the party is also unsatisfactory. People like Andrew Wilson, Angus Robertson and the like are equally unlikely to help create an inspiring reason to vote yes. Couple this with the fact that all the major fault lines seem to be on culture war stuff like trans rights, on which the leadership is at least nominally on the progressive side, and it's hard to see where the space is for proper left wing pressure in the party. 

There is a basic impulse in the party that is sympathetic to being a bit more radical on loads of issues. Unfortunately the nature of our party means that often is not channelled towards good left wing politics but baseless bullshit from self-serving narcissists looking to raise their profile (and using our bizarre cottage industry of independent media, blogs and the national to do so). 

Of course - all of this does hint at another good reason for independence. If the political parties ever realigned to have a proper left/right divide as opposed to yes/no, we'd be able to have ideologically coherent parties and fight the real battles. In that sense, the real fear with independence is that we do an Ireland - have 100 years of alternating rule between 2 centrist/centre right nationalist parties based on a relatively obscure fissure in the independence movement at the moment of its greatest triumph. 

Its not that id vote ‘against’ it, its just any real enthusiasm that people like Angus Macneil and Mceleny would make things ‘better’ would be very doubtful. Id probably still vote for it but not as gleefully. 

[Antlion]

52 minutes ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

I should say as well - maybe it's not 100% doom and gloom. The party has in recent times raised taxes on high earners, and also raised benefit levels. Just today a new benefit was introduced aimed at pulling kids out of poverty. These are real redistributive measures that shouldn't be minimised. 

I guess what pisses me off about the party is that it feels like things like that are not nearly as important to most of the membership and most of the parliamentarians as the various nonsense that the yer da side and the centrist side come out with. I basically trust that the FM has decent politics, but beyond that? It is hard to pick out senior MSPs or MPs who I would trust to do the right thing where it came to e.g taxation, regulation, benefits, trade union rights, immigration other than spouting platitudes etc etc. 

Agree with this. Independent sovereign statehood doesn’t make things better. It provides the means to make things better.