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When will indyref2 happen?


Colkitto

Indyref2  

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5 minutes ago, Lex said:

 


No I didn’t say that. I said that saying that pro independence parties in Scotland carry a majority of the vote is a patent falsehood.
 

 

In 2016 they got a majority of the vote among parties that crossed the threshold to be elected, with 48.3% of the regional votes to 47.2%. If you chuck in everyone else then yes, I think they come up short but I'm not sure of all the tiny parties' positions on independence.

 

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This may be true but if they secure enough of the vote within the context of the framework of the Scottish Parliament, they have a right to enact their policies. The point then is what happens when those policies are enacted. You cannot say for example that all Labour voters favour remaining in the union come what may. That is patently not the case irrespective of the party's position on a policy level. When we have the referendum we'll see where the majority sits. 



Could equally point out that not all SNP voters favour independence. There was certainly a good level of Tory tactical voting going on in Scotland in Lab/SNP marginals to get the SNP in and keep Comrade Corbyn out. And it worked.

There will be local issues and levels of tactical voting in every constituency. What we can say with absolute certainty however, is that more Scottish people voted for union supporting parties than independence supporting parties in 2017 and 2019.
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1 minute ago, Day of the Lords said:
7 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:
what's the upshot of this observation?

It's just Lex dancing on the head of a pin trying to prove a point no one cares about.

Come on - Effie Deans and the rest of the oddballs in the bunker think that is all teh’bly important (only in Scotland, mind - the Brexit vote constituting a technical minority of the population and the Tories carrying it through based on their only winning a minority of the vote - all fine!). 

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5 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Constituency voting in the Holyrood 2016 election

SNP - 1,059.898

Con -     501,844

Lab -      514,261

Lib -           13,172

The total Constituency votes for the Con/Lab/Lib parties was 1, 029.277

That is around 30,000 votes less than the SNP received.

And that is not counting the pro Independence Green Party constituency votes which obviously would push the SNP total higher. 

I would say that is a Majority for Independence.

You've made an arse of those numbers btw. Worth checking again.

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1 minute ago, Lex said:


There will be local issues and levels of tactical voting in every constituency. What we can say with absolute certainty however, is that more Scottish people voted for union supporting parties than independence supporting parties in 2017 and 2019.

 

 

Those are Westminster elections in which the biggest issue by far was Brexit, so they're hardly comparable and scarcely even relevant.

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12 minutes ago, Lex said:

Could equally point out that not all SNP voters favour independence. There was certainly a good level of Tory tactical voting going on in Scotland in Lab/SNP marginals to get the SNP in and keep Comrade Corbyn out. And it worked.

There will be local issues and levels of tactical voting in every constituency. What we can say with absolute certainty however, is that more Scottish people voted for union supporting parties than independence supporting parties in 2017 and 2019.

Actually agree with Lex here, to a certain extent. Elections are not referendums. We can't claim that a majority of people in Scotland voted for independence supporting parties in recent elections.

Independence might be the main issue in Scottish politics but it's not the only one. Some indpendence supporters for for unionist parties and some unionists vote for independence supporting parties.

The simple fact is that if the Scottish parliament has a majority of MSPs who support a referendum, that is a mandate and there should be a referendum. If it doesn't there shouldn't be one. That's democracy, if people in Scotland don't want another referendum, there's an incredibly simple mechanism to achieve that... vote for a party who're opposed to that at Holyrood elections.

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2 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

I once upon a time made a thread in this forum asking no voters to convince us all that voting no is the right thing to do. After all, the onus is on them to do so seeing as the sensible majority have voted for a party who’s primary goal is to deliver Scottish independence in the past few elections now.

Stormzy’s main reasons from what I’ve seen are:

- I’m content with the way things are and
- it was a once in a generation vote

These are piss poor reasons for arguing the case of the Union. It’s especially bad that this is all Stormzy came armed with when he entered this “cesspit” to tell everyone they were having a “circle jerk” (lol).

Lots of growing up to do for the wee man.

This might be alright if I desired genuine discussion from this place. 

I love that you think the onus is on the Unionists to convince the other side though, I think you vastly underestimate the good old silent majority that would of course need to be convinced to change the status quo. 

You have an insincere understanding of party politics too re the SNP and majorities, wee man. 

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This might be alright if I desired genuine discussion from this place.


Seeing as that’s the mindset you’ve had since you decided to post in here, I suggest you take your absolutely god awful reasons for supporting a failing union and f**k off.
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6 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

 


Seeing as that’s the mindset you’ve had since you decided to post in here, I suggest you take your absolutely god awful reasons for supporting a failing union and f**k off.

 

Ahahah calm down big man. You f**k off, I'm a nice change here you're like mould at this point. 

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It’s true that not everyone votes along nationalist/unionist party lines.

It’s kind of irrelevant when discussing mandates though. If the SNP stand on a clear pro-referendum ticket and it’s successful, that’s the position they will (or should at least) advance.

If someone on benefits votes Tory because they hate foxes or whatever, they don’t get to opt out of the austerity bit that comes out of it. Likewise if enough pro-Independence voters back Labour, Lib Dems etc (lol, I know) and that kills off any prospect of Holyrood passing a referendum, tough titties.

2 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Anyone who thinks that a rogue MP, who I've never heard of tbh, and has been dealt with swiftly by the SNP is going to make any dent whatsoever in our glorious path to self determination...is frankly for the birds

Seems like the SNP have handled it well to me. I’m sure if mud is slung near the election, they’ll point out how they’ve handled this compared to Cummings and co.

A bit like the exams thing, or arguably the entire response to Coronavirus, the Scottish Government always have the UK Government to somehow make them look good.

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I mean they've forced this so aye they've made the absolute most of the hand dealt:
 
I seen Jenrick getting interviewed earlier and the interviewer (ITV IIRC) smbasically said "you wont condemn Ferrier though will you, you cant because of Cummings".

He fumbled some shite about it not being helpful to criticise individual cases etc.
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17 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

A dead club supporter backing a dead union on here isn't a "change" m8.

I can feel the pain through your delusion. Both are alive and thriving more so than your football club and your Indy dreams. 

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2 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

I can feel the pain through your delusion. Both are alive and thriving more so than your football club and your Indy dreams. 

If you really think the Union is thriving right now you must have your head in the sand or are completely deluding yourself?

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