When will indyref2 happen?

[git-intae-thum]

31 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

Time for the Scottish Government to get this Eton Mess telt.

Johnson looked a hungover disaster.......hope he was suffering when Angus had him on the ropes.

What was of interest was that he gave the shifty Westminster politician response when they do not want to give a straight answer to a question.

So....if Scotland elects a pro Indy majority in 2021 expect negotiations to start

Expect though that these duplicitous b*****ds already have their conditions drawn up before they "allow" a referendum. These will not be conditions that are conductive to a yes vote. The SNP leadership needs to tread very carefully.

The 2022 referendum must be held in the same format as 2014.

Any attempts to alter this and gerrymander outcomes must be rejected.....but to ensure this there needs to be serious threat of a plan B nuclear option. Again the leadership need to act.

 

[Bairnardo]

Johnson looked a hungover disaster.......hope he was suffering when Angus had him on the ropes.
What was of interest was that he gave the shifty Westminster politician response when they do not want to give a straight answer to a question.
So....if Scotland elects a pro Indy majority in 2021 expect negotiations to start
Expect though that these duplicitous b*****ds already have their conditions drawn up before they "allow" a referendum. These will not be conditions that are conductive to a yes vote. The SNP leadership needs to tread very carefully.
The 2022 referendum must be held in the same format as 2014.
Any attempts to alter this and gerrymander outcomes must be rejected.....but to ensure this there needs to be serious threat of a plan B nuclear option. Again the leadership need to act.
 

Put it in the manifesto for 21? A Yes/No independence referendum? I know these c***s will try anything but everything needs to be weighted in terms of the Scottish people being very clear in what they are asking Scotgov to deliver in voting for them.

[git-intae-thum]

24 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

30 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

Johnson looked a hungover disaster.......hope he was suffering when Angus had him on the ropes.
What was of interest was that he gave the shifty Westminster politician response when they do not want to give a straight answer to a question.
So....if Scotland elects a pro Indy majority in 2021 expect negotiations to start
Expect though that these duplicitous b*****ds already have their conditions drawn up before they "allow" a referendum. These will not be conditions that are conductive to a yes vote. The SNP leadership needs to tread very carefully.
The 2022 referendum must be held in the same format as 2014.
Any attempts to alter this and gerrymander outcomes must be rejected.....but to ensure this there needs to be serious threat of a plan B nuclear option. Again the leadership need to act.
 

Put it in the manifesto for 21? A Yes/No independence referendum? I know these c***s will try anything but everything needs to be weighted in terms of the Scottish people being very clear in what they are asking Scotgov to deliver in voting for them.

Agree with all that. This manifesto needs to be explicit in its intentions.

We already have several clear democratic mandates.....but making it extra clear in this manifesto and having it prominent in the campaign  will ensure a powerful claim of right.....one that could only be disputed by those of a fascist tendency.

Hopefully in a democratic nation this right will be respected.

But I am no so sure. We are after all dealing with a bunch of crooks in suits who have happily just voted to break the law. What next? They are going to have no qualms about absolutely shafting Scotland.

So there needs to be a backup plan.

A start will be making it clear that our Westminster Mp's are prepared to walk away. We will turn Westminster into what effectively would be the fUK parliament.

Holyrood is then going to have to develop a stiffer spine....and start getting stuck in. Every legal angle and argument needs fully explored going back to the original1705/1706 record of initial discussions. I have no doubt such an examination would bring forward a long list of breaches, giving good grounds to legally dissolve the 1707 treaty.

Holyrood is going to have a job on its hands to stand up both for its rights and the sovereignty of the Scottish people.

Goodness knows such a scenario is obviously not ideal. But it has to be seen as a credible threat, should we continue to encounter the s.30 brickwall or the offer of a gerrymandered referendum.

 

[SandyCromarty]

11 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

Johnson looked a hungover disaster.......hope he was suffering when Angus had him on the ropes.

What was of interest was that he gave the shifty Westminster politician response when they do not want to give a straight answer to a question.

So....if Scotland elects a pro Indy majority in 2021 expect negotiations to start

Expect though that these duplicitous b*****ds already have their conditions drawn up before they "allow" a referendum. These will not be conditions that are conductive to a yes vote. The SNP leadership needs to tread very carefully.

The 2022 referendum must be held in the same format as 2014.

Any attempts to alter this and gerrymander outcomes must be rejected.....but to ensure this there needs to be serious threat of a plan B nuclear option. Again the leadership need to act.

 

It was ever thus with senior westminster politicians.

The tories and in fact any westminster government will be anti Scottish Independence as long as we have oil in the ground which provides a financial outcome, admittedly there is not the reserves in the east Shetland basin there once was but fields such as the Claire in the west of Shetland are immense and will be with us for some more decades.

Westminster as part of their anti Indy strategy play down the importance of the oil fields financially and continually portray the North Sea oilfields as depleted and of no value, it is blatantly true that since the 1970's westminster has frittered the oil income on military and grandiose schemes such as London's Crossrail, the Olympics, HS2 etc etc while completely ignoring Scotlands needs. 

We the Scottish people have been in effect no lubed fuckin reamed from day one with our oil income, even now North Sea platforms and rigs are being de-commissioned in the north of england while our major yards are empty.

Also know that in Western Europe only Norway and Scotland are oil producers, this has always been a massive bargaining chip for westminster in EU trade deals, to lose that would leave them exposed.

[NotThePars]

Aren't we going to have to leave a huge heap of that oil in the ground if we don't want to be living in the Capital Wasteland in the next century

[Bairnardo]

It was ever thus with senior westminster politicians.
The tories and in fact any westminster government will be anti Scottish Independence as long as we have oil in the ground which provides a financial outcome, admittedly there is not the reserves in the east Shetland basin there once was but fields such as the Claire in the west of Shetland are immense and will be with us for some more decades.
Westminster as part of their anti Indy strategy play down the importance of the oil fields financially and continually portray the North Sea oilfields as depleted and of no value, it is blatantly true that since the 1970's westminster has frittered the oil income on military and grandiose schemes such as London's Crossrail, the Olympics, HS2 etc etc while completely ignoring Scotlands needs. 
We the Scottish people have been in effect no lubed fuckin reamed from day one with our oil income, even now North Sea platforms and rigs are being de-commissioned in the north of england while our major yards are empty.
Also know that in Western Europe only Norway and Scotland are oil producers, this has always been a massive bargaining chip for westminster in EU trade deals, to lose that would leave them exposed.

West of Shetland is beginning to look like a busted flush tbf. Totals all singing all dancing Shetland Gas Plant absolutely dying on its arse being testament to that

[SandyCromarty]

23 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

1 hour ago, SandyCromarty said:

It was ever thus with senior westminster politicians.
The tories and in fact any westminster government will be anti Scottish Independence as long as we have oil in the ground which provides a financial outcome, admittedly there is not the reserves in the east Shetland basin there once was but fields such as the Claire in the west of Shetland are immense and will be with us for some more decades.
Westminster as part of their anti Indy strategy play down the importance of the oil fields financially and continually portray the North Sea oilfields as depleted and of no value, it is blatantly true that since the 1970's westminster has frittered the oil income on military and grandiose schemes such as London's Crossrail, the Olympics, HS2 etc etc while completely ignoring Scotlands needs. 
We the Scottish people have been in effect no lubed fuckin reamed from day one with our oil income, even now North Sea platforms and rigs are being de-commissioned in the north of england while our major yards are empty.
Also know that in Western Europe only Norway and Scotland are oil producers, this has always been a massive bargaining chip for westminster in EU trade deals, to lose that would leave them exposed.

West of Shetland is beginning to look like a busted flush tbf. Totals all singing all dancing Shetland Gas Plant absolutely dying on its arse being testament to that

Total's Shetland gas plant on it's arse? First I've heard of that.

Total is still producing from the Laggan and Tormore fields, they have had disputes with BP which cost them further financial costs in the building of a power station and they also have had problems with Ineos who are dithering over further financial outlay on the Glendronach Field.

BP are producing from The Clare, Schiehallion and Foinavon fields to the Sullom Voe plant which has nothing to do with Total.

Equinor's Rosebank field is awaiting development.

Admittedly there are development problems due to the West of Shetland location just as there were in the East Shetland basin in the early days, we had numerous wells drilled where the hydrocarbon was of a high viscosity but this was eventually overcome, bear in mind that in the days of kelly drilling in the NS the technology was virtually straight down if possible, now with advanced directional drilling they can pinpoint exact areas where to direct the bit to. 

[Bairnardo]

20 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Total's Shetland gas plant on it's arse? First I've heard of that.

Total is still producing from the Laggan and Tormore fields, they have had disputes with BP which cost them further financial costs in the building of a power station and they also have had problems with Ineos who are dithering over further financial outlay on the Glendronach Field.

BP are producing from The Clare, Schiehallion and Foinavon fields to the Sullom Voe plant which has nothing to do with Total.

Equinor's Rosebank field is awaiting development.

Admittedly there are development problems due to the West of Shetland location just as there were in the East Shetland basin in the early days, we had numerous wells drilled where the hydrocarbon was of a high viscosity but this was eventually overcome, bear in mind that in the days of kelly drilling in the NS the technology was virtually straight down if possible, now with advanced directional drilling they can pinpoint exact areas where to direct the bit to. 

Well you heard it here first. You can PM me if you are actually interested re the plant. 

[SandyCromarty]

5 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Well you heard it here first. You can PM me if you are actually interested re the plant. 

Well you must have inside information as all I can find is that the plant is in production, there were strikes in 2019 and the other problem was the delayed investment by Ineos which I already mentioned.

A pal of mine works in Total's Aberdeen office so I'll see what he has to say.

[Bairnardo]

11 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Well you must have inside information as all I can find is that the plant is in production, there were strikes in 2019 and the other problem was the delayed investment by Ineos which I already mentioned.

A pal of mine works in Total's Aberdeen office so I'll see what he has to say.

I do. I had probably better not plaster it over the internet though like I say. 

I dont think Ineos are involved in the Glendronach decision although that may be part of it. There are other, bigger issues with the Glendronach field 

[Academically Deficient]

Of ffs. Newsnight tonight. Esteemed lawyer Malcolm "vowel strangler" Rifkind making the case for the Union.

Even an idiot like me could destroy his defence in court. Poor, phone-in stuff. 

Apparently the majority of Scots are so proud of their British identity they will vote no.

Gotta hand it to Malc, hes got his finger on the pulse. Still, appearance fee in the hip pocket, cheeky wee day at the Lords tomorrow and it's the weekend!

[speckled tangerine]

6 minutes ago, Academically Deficient said:

Of ffs. Newsnight tonight. Esteemed lawyer Malcolm "vowel strangler" Rifkind making the case for the Union.

Even an idiot like me could destroy his defence in court. Poor, phone-in stuff. 

Apparently the majority of Scots are so proud of their British identity they will vote no.

Gotta hand it to Malc, hes got his finger on the pulse. Still, appearance fee in the hip pocket, cheeky wee day at the Lords tomorrow and it's the weekend!

Crook.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cash-for-access-scandal-sir-malcolm-rifkind-to-step-down-as-mp-for-kensington-and-chelsea-10066651.html%3famp

 

[Academically Deficient]

I've always thought political programmes should have that ticker tape banner at the bottom of the screen like they do with footballers. 

So, like Tony Cottee burbling away about Sheffield United's poor conversion stats while underneath him it says WHU apps 89, G 38 or some shit you've got, Iain Duncan Smith: biggest loser in Tory election history, supports Brexit, picks nose and eats it in public.

Sorta thing.

Back to you in the studio, Jeff!

Edited September 17, 2020 by Academically Deficient
Spelling

[HTG]

9 hours ago, Academically Deficient said:

Of ffs. Newsnight tonight. Esteemed lawyer Malcolm "vowel strangler" Rifkind making the case for the Union.

Even an idiot like me could destroy his defence in court. Poor, phone-in stuff. 

Apparently the majority of Scots are so proud of their British identity they will vote no.

Gotta hand it to Malc, hes got his finger on the pulse. Still, appearance fee in the hip pocket, cheeky wee day at the Lords tomorrow and it's the weekend!

This "once in a generation" stuff has to be given short shrift. Every time it's used, the response should be "I'd rather be dead in a ditch". Alternatively, if 7 years is good enough for something as contentious as the GFA, it's good enough for little old non violent Scotland. 

[SandyCromarty]

9 hours ago, Academically Deficient said:

Of ffs. Newsnight tonight. Esteemed lawyer Malcolm "vowel strangler" Rifkind making the case for the Union.

Even an idiot like me could destroy his defence in court. Poor, phone-in stuff. 

Apparently the majority of Scots are so proud of their British identity they will vote no.

Gotta hand it to Malc, hes got his finger on the pulse. Still, appearance fee in the hip pocket, cheeky wee day at the Lords tomorrow and it's the weekend!

Didn't this fool have to resign from parliament owing to the cash for access scandal when he told undercover reporters, (representing a made up chinese company), that he had access to very senior politicians and he charged £8,000 for a half days work.

So we can take whatever he has to say as the honest truth?

[Academically Deficient]

Agree with the above.

It was the same tired old stuff. I imagine the BBC getting increasingly desperate to get people to come on telly and defend the Union in an interesting, novel way.

"Oh ffs, Sebeastian. It's nearly 9pm and we've got nothing! Suppose we better phone Rifkind. Tell him theres a fee and a car to pick him up." 

[KingRocketman II]

2 hours ago, HTG said:

This "once in a generation" stuff has to be given short shrift. Every time it's used, the response should be "I'd rather be dead in a ditch". Alternatively, if 7 years is good enough for something as contentious as the GFA, it's good enough for little old non violent Scotland. 

yes, it is clearly the go to line Tory HQ want their troops to trot out at every occasion. Their MO is quite simply repeating agreed basic core messages ("now is not the time"; "get Brexit done"; "once in a lifetime" etc etc) regardless of how these banal statements stand up to scrutiny. They do however land quite successfully with the great unwashed on account that the mind-span of their target group is largely persuaded on any issue by a 5 second soundbite. See also any criticism of the Govt's handling on Covid reduced repeatedly to an accusation of "criticising our great NHS workers". 

Also please note that anything a Scottish Government Minister or SNP politician says in passing is to be held up as a commitment and to be completely honoured whereby the PM and any Tory Minister or politician can misrepresent, contradict and lie as well as break international law without fear of embarrassment or said quote being thrown back at them. Post Trump politics is very much alive and embraced in the UK - but not you Scotland. Eat your cereal. 

[Gordon EF]

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-need-for-a-uk-secession-clarity-act/

Beautiful tear-stained rant in this rag I've never heard of before. I particularly like this idea that when Scotland votes Yes, the parts that vote No should stay a part of the United Kingdom.

Now, let's cast our mind back to 4 short years ago. What was the unionist position when every single part of Scotland voted to stay in the EU? Was it that, of course Scotland (and London and Northern ireland) should be allowed to stay in the EU... this is what democracy is. Or was it "tough totties, it was a UK-wide vote"?

[Anonapersona]

44 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-need-for-a-uk-secession-clarity-act/

Beautiful tear-stained rant in this rag I've never heard of before. I particularly like this idea that when Scotland votes Yes, the parts that vote No should stay a part of the United Kingdom.

Now, let's cast our mind back to 4 short years ago. What was the unionist position when every single part of Scotland voted to stay in the EU? Was it that, of course Scotland (and London and Northern ireland) should be allowed to stay in the EU... this is what democracy is. Or was it "tough totties, it was a UK-wide vote"?

What a sad bunch. Can't wait to be shot of those losers.

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, MixuFruit said:

the lad's clearly self written wikipedia is something: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Blackett_(writer)

 

I actually tasted gammon reading through that.