When will indyref2 happen?

[Baxter Parp]

19 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Theres coverage of emergency workers in third world countries with better (than those who actually have been issued ppe) ppe than is being provided here. Yer average Indian beat bobbie has a mask, not here. Even doctors in non-corona wards in Russia have better PPE.
They can’t even get a corona hub launched in inverclyde because they are so disorganised. Thats not doing a good job.

I asked who's doing a good job.  Who should ScotGov have emulated? You seem to be deliberately avoiding the question.  I get that you think ScotGov did a bad job, I want to know who did a good one.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I asked who's doing a good job.  Who should ScotGov have emulated? You seem to be deliberately avoiding the question.  I get that you think ScotGov did a bad job, I want to know who did a good one.

Why does someone need to be doing a good job? But if you are desperate for an answer, from the limited stuff ive seen between shifts, Singapore, Korea. As i said earlier other countries like Russia and India seem to be better at getting PPE out also.
Im not asking them to emulate anyone, Scotland’s different, but im asking them not to be shite, which is what they currently are. I’ve avoided your question as its irrelevant.

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Why does someone need to be doing a good job? But if you are desperate for an answer, from the limited stuff ive seen between shifts, Singapore, Korea. As i said earlier other countries like Russia and India seem to be better at getting PPE out also.
Im not asking them to emulate anyone, Scotland’s different, but im asking them not to be shite, which is what they currently are. I’ve avoided your question as its irrelevant.

Of course it's relevant, if ScotGov are doing no worse than any country in the same position and better than others then it's not doing badly. Singapore's response to the virus was exceptional (literally) but it has obvious advantages over the Scottish Government. I don't know why you think Russia is doing a better job, they seem to be extremely reluctant to let anyone know what's actually happening there, any links?  As for India, I think you're just plain wrong.

It's easy as f**k to say things are shite if you're not willing to propose an alternative that can be emulated within the bounds of what is actually possible given the circumstances.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Of course it's relevant, if ScotGov are doing no worse than any country in the same position and better than others then it's not doing badly. Singapore's response to the virus was exceptional (literally) but it has obvious advantages over the Scottish Government. 

You asked and I gave you an example. Hong Kong, a small state controlled by a bigger one, they’ve done not a bad job too.

I don't know why you think Russia is doing a better job, they seem to be extremely reluctant to let anyone know what's actually happening there, any links? 

BBC had quite good coverage of the PPE available to doctors in Moscow, thats what Im talking about.

As for India, I think you're just plain wrong.

Indian cops have PPE, its on the news coverage.

It's easy as f**k to say things are shite if you're not willing to propose an alternative that can be emulated within the bounds of what is actually possible given the circumstances.

Heres what i propose, be properly prepared. We waited too long to go to a lock down and we’ve done it in a ‘oh it would be just nice if you could stay in the house’ ‘british’ way. Fucking farce. But aye you just let your blind allegiance shine through.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Of course it's relevant, if ScotGov are doing no worse than any country in the same position and better than others then it's not doing badly. Singapore's response to the virus was exceptional (literally) but it has obvious advantages over the Scottish Government. I don't know why you think Russia is doing a better job, they seem to be extremely reluctant to let anyone know what's actually happening there, any links?  As for India, I think you're just plain wrong.

It's easy as f**k to say things are shite if you're not willing to propose an alternative that can be emulated within the bounds of what is actually possible given the circumstances.

Do you genuinely think the response is acceptable and can you back up any support for the government with any first hand experience on the front line of this or even direct relations who have praised the handling thus far? It’s not about ‘oh this country did this and this country did that’ its about the fact our response, which is the only response i give even the slightest of fucks about, has been terrible. Dont listen to the speeches and plaudits of politicians, speak to people actually fighting against this and tell me that you think its a decent response?

 

We knew about the likelihood of this virus spreading in January, why didnt NHS Ggc draw up a contingency plan then? Why were their covid hubs only proposed less than 2 weeks ago? Why also despite willing volunteer doctors can’t they open one in Inverclyde if they are organised and coping well?

 

Why doesnt the Scottish government have an effective resilience protocol for such an endemic? IF it did have one its been found wanting, IF it didnt then surely thats negligent to the extent its bordering on criminal?

 

Granted some things, such as shut downs reliant on state aid are only doable with westminster authority, but Scotland (and England) can’t even get the logistics right and can’t even get the fucking childcare for key workers sorted effectively. I’m having to pay for a nursery which is already closed and hiring a member of staff from that nursery on a living wage because its the decent thing to do and the alternatives are entirely unacceptable, this is costing me the best part of a grand a month, im actually out of pocket going to my work, but my wife and I take being in public service very seriously and believe we have a duty to do our bit. Individual public sector workers are plugging the gaps created by the mismanagement from the government and lack of a clear coherent strategy. If we get through this with less deaths than expected it will be down to public sector workers making a crap response work by filling gaps etc, not effective leadership.

 

It absolutely breaks my heart as a nationalist and someone who believed the SNP were the party who cared about the public sector to see such a response. As I said before to you, i’ve defended the SNP, nationalism etc on here for years, but im sorry I can’t blanket get behind them just because they are the party of independence and stick my fingers in my ears shouting lalalala the way some appear to be doing. I don’t measure Scotland by what other countries are doing, I see Scotland as a country that should be a world leader, indeed thats what the SNP sets itself out to bring out from Scotland and im sorry but on this, they are utterly failing.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Why does someone need to be doing a good job? But if you are desperate for an answer, from the limited stuff ive seen between shifts, Singapore, Korea. As i said earlier other countries like Russia and India seem to be better at getting PPE out also.
Im not asking them to emulate anyone, Scotland’s different, but im asking them not to be shite, which is what they currently are. I’ve avoided your question as its irrelevant.

Russia is fucking lying about what is going on.

[Baxter Parp]

21 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Do you genuinely think the response is acceptable and can you back up any support for the government with any first hand experience on the front line of this or even direct relations who have praised the handling thus far? It’s not about ‘oh this country did this and this country did that’ its about the fact our response, which is the only response i give even the slightest of fucks about, has been terrible. Dont listen to the speeches and plaudits of politicians, speak to people actually fighting against this and tell me that you think its a decent response?

Our response can only be in concert with Westminster.  We're not independent or anything like it.  We rely on Westminster for funding, resources and the actual power to do anything, otherwise the ScotGov can only advise.

21 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

We knew about the likelihood of this virus spreading in January, why didnt NHS Ggc draw up a contingency plan then?

A contingency plan stating what? We'll do whatever the UK lets us do with whatever funds they allocate to us?

21 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Why were their covid hubs only proposed less than 2 weeks ago? 

I'm guessing in concert with UK policy.  Do you know anything different?

21 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Why also despite willing volunteer doctors can’t they open one in Inverclyde if they are organised and coping well?

I don't know, the one in Dundee was set up 9 days after it was announced.  Maybe Greater Glasgow NHS (or whoever) are incompetent?

21 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Why doesnt the Scottish government have an effective resilience protocol for such an endemic? IF it did have one its been found wanting, IF it didnt then surely thats negligent to the extent its bordering on criminal?

Which bit of ScotGov doesn't have emergency powers or funding and has to follow Westminster's lead doesn't explain this?

21 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Granted some things, such as shut downs reliant on state aid are only doable with westminster authority, but Scotland (and England) can’t even get the logistics right and can’t even get the fucking childcare for key workers sorted effectively. I’m having to pay for a nursery which is already closed and hiring a member of staff from that nursery on a living wage because its the decent thing to do and the alternatives are entirely unacceptable, this is costing me the best part of a grand a month, im actually out of pocket going to my work, but my wife and I take being in public service very seriously and believe we have a duty to do our bit. Individual public sector workers are plugging the gaps created by the mismanagement from the government and lack of a clear coherent strategy. If we get through this with less deaths than expected it will be down to public sector workers making a crap response work by filling gaps etc, not effective leadership.

Good news for tomorrow then.

https://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/tourism-and-visitor-attractions/coronavirus

21 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

It absolutely breaks my heart as a nationalist and someone who believed the SNP were the party who cared about the public sector to see such a response. As I said before to you, i’ve defended the SNP, nationalism etc on here for years, but im sorry I can’t blanket get behind them just because they are the party of independence and stick my fingers in my ears shouting lalalala the way some appear to be doing. I don’t measure Scotland by what other countries are doing, I see Scotland as a country that should be a world leader, indeed thats what the SNP sets itself out to bring out from Scotland and im sorry but on this, they are utterly failing.

Scotland isn't even part of the world yet, never mind a world leader.

It's clear to me that Sturgeon has been pushing the UK in the right direction since this began but ScotGov can only operate in the  context handed it by Westminster:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-will-the-war-on-coronavirus-change-britain

"One attendee complains that the Scottish government in particular ‘tries to outflank us on the hard-line positions’. "

You're right to be upset but I think you're wrong to point the finger at ScotGov.  Of course it's not perfect, maybe not even as good as it could possibly be but the great majority of the fault lies elsewhere.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Scotland isn't even part of the world yet, never mind a world leader.
It's clear to me that Sturgeon has been pushing the UK in the right direction since this began but ScotGov can only operate in the  context handed it by Westminster:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-will-the-war-on-coronavirus-change-britain
"One attendee complains that the Scottish government in particular ‘tries to outflank us on the hard-line positions’. "
You're right to be upset but I think you're wrong to point the finger at ScotGov.  Of course it's not perfect, maybe not even as good as it could possibly be but the great majority of the fault lies elsewhere.

The ‘hubs’ im talking about are corona virus testing hubs, I dont know why posting details of nursery allocation in an area i dont live in in any way proves or disproves any point im making.
The Scottish Government can make its own emergency planning policy decisions, Scotland has its own NHS, Police, Fire and rescue, local authorities, education system etc, all of which appear to be inadequate in terms of planning for this. Look the Scottish government, like many governments world wide have been found wanting on this.
Purchasing PPE equipment for Scottish public bodies is not the responsibility of the Westminster government. As much as I hate the tories, the fact my wife and her partners in her practice have no proper masks isnt the fault of Boris, its because Scot NHS didnt properly plan for a large scale epidemic, now one of her colleagues has been diagnosed with Corona Virus, likely caught at work through exposure to someone without appropriate PPE. Its very very clear you come from an entrenched position and theres no point continually going backwards and forwards any further.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Russia is fucking lying about what is going on.

Of course they are, im not saying they aren’t, what im saying is from the evidence i’ve seen they seem to be providing PPE to medical staff who arent even on the front line.

[strichener]

2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Our response can only be in concert with Westminster.  We're not independent or anything like it.  We rely on Westminster for funding, resources and the actual power to do anything, otherwise the ScotGov can only advise.

A contingency plan stating what? We'll do whatever the UK lets us do with whatever funds they allocate to us?

I'm guessing in concert with UK policy.  Do you know anything different?

I don't know, the one in Dundee was set up 9 days after it was announced.  Maybe Greater Glasgow NHS (or whoever) are incompetent?

Which bit of ScotGov doesn't have emergency powers or funding and has to follow Westminster's lead doesn't explain this?

Good news for tomorrow then.

https://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/tourism-and-visitor-attractions/coronavirus

Scotland isn't even part of the world yet, never mind a world leader.

It's clear to me that Sturgeon has been pushing the UK in the right direction since this began but ScotGov can only operate in the  context handed it by Westminster:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-will-the-war-on-coronavirus-change-britain

"One attendee complains that the Scottish government in particular ‘tries to outflank us on the hard-line positions’. "

You're right to be upset but I think you're wrong to point the finger at ScotGov.  Of course it's not perfect, maybe not even as good as it could possibly be but the great majority of the fault lies elsewhere.

Of course Scotland can't take any blame, that's what Westminster is there for.

You really are relentless in your need to backup the SNP regardless of any evidence presented to you.  You know sometimes you can't defend the indefensible which @Inanimate Carbon Rod has clearly first hand knowledge of. 

My niece is a frontline worker and can't get information on a suspected case that she was in contact with but yet she is being told that she must still attend her ward.  It is absolutely shambolic.

[Baxter Parp]

1 hour ago, strichener said:

Of course Scotland can't take any blame, that's what Westminster is there for.

You really are relentless in your need to backup the SNP regardless of any evidence presented to you.  You know sometimes you can't defend the indefensible which @Inanimate Carbon Rod has clearly first hand knowledge of. 

My niece is a frontline worker and can't get information on a suspected case that she was in contact with but yet she is being told that she must still attend her ward.  It is absolutely shambolic.

However can I possibly counter all these compelling anecdotes?

[Baxter Parp]

3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Of course they are, im not saying they aren’t, what im saying is from the evidence i’ve seen they seem to be providing PPE to medical staff who arent even on the front line.

You know what lying is, right?

[git-intae-thum]

3 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

You know what lying is, right?

Mate... He is completely correct to be angry. I am the same. I have a loved one who works in primary care and is going into wards with covid patients.....with no full PPE available.

I think you will probably know I am very strongly pro independence....but I am not an SNP fanboy and if see a cluster I will call it.

This is a cluster. People are going to die.

[Baxter Parp]

3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The ‘hubs’ im talking about are corona virus testing hubs, I dont know why posting details of nursery allocation in an area i dont live in in any way proves or disproves any point im making.

Because it seems they're getting the childcare sorted and you were talking about Inverclyde earlier? I have no idea why Inverclyde testing  isn't up, got a link?

3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The Scottish Government can make its own emergency planning policy decisions,

Worthless wanking in the wind Without the powers and without the funds. What would these plans consist of?

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

However can I possibly counter all these compelling anecdotes?

What do I have to gain from lying to you? Why would I lie to you?
You say anecdotes, im telling you the actual reality of the situation in the public sector, you have other posters, all of whom ive previously seen making pro snp type comments telling you in telling the truth. You’re making snide comments like ‘how can i possibly counter all these compelling anecdotes’ i mean fair enough if you think sarcasm and blind faith will get you through then batter in. I know that you are a well read guy, but you genuinely don’t have anything like the full facts here.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Mate... He is completely correct to be angry. I am the same. I have a loved one who works in primary care and is going into wards with covid patients.....with no full PPE available.
I think you will probably know I am very strongly pro independence....but I am not an SNP fanboy and if see a cluster I will call it.
This is a cluster. People are going to die.

Some people cannot be reasoned with, its staggering, but theres the same on either side of the indy and in general any political argument. I think lives were also going to be lost regardless, but even more will be lost because of a lack of preparation, however when you’ve got some people suggesting the Scottish Government isnt allowed to buy protective face masks because of westminster then there really isn’t any point in continuing to attempt to reason with lost causes.

[Baxter Parp]

9 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

What do I have to gain from lying to you? Why would I lie to you?
You say anecdotes, im telling you the actual reality of the situation in the public sector, you have other posters, all of whom ive previously seen making pro snp type comments telling you in telling the truth. You’re making snide comments like ‘how can i possibly counter all these compelling anecdotes’ i mean fair enough if you think sarcasm and blind faith will get you through then batter in. I know that you are a well read guy, but you genuinely don’t have anything like the full facts here.

I don't think you do either and passing on an anecdote is not evidence and never has been.  I mean "probably caught because of inadequate PPE"? Come on, that's never a compelling argument.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Baxter Parp

[Baxter Parp]

7 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Some people cannot be reasoned with, its staggering, but theres the same on either side of the indy and in general any political argument. I think lives were also going to be lost regardless, but even more will be lost because of a lack of preparation, however when you’ve got some people suggesting the Scottish Government isnt allowed to buy protective face masks because of westminster then there really isn’t any point in continuing to attempt to reason with lost causes.

Never suggested that. You're arguing from a dishonest place. For what it's worth I think the Scottish Government are finding it as hard to buy quality PPE when demand is as great as it is as every other government is.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Baxter Parp

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Never suggested that. You're arguing from a dishonest place. For what it's worth I think the Scottish Government are finding it as hard to buy quality PPE when demand is as great as it is as every other government is.

Dishonest place? You know what, im just gonna leave it, you’re clearly a nutter who can’t take being told the snp did something wrong. They should have a stockpile of this stuff, its not even expensive. Get a grip. A dishonest place. Im telling you first hand, its not a fucking anecdote, im in the middle of this with experience and insight from two critical parts of the response to this disease with far more insight than you have as to just how badly this has been managed.

[Bairn Necessities]

On 25/03/2020 at 21:01, Baxter Parp said:

Of course it's relevant, if ScotGov are doing no worse than any country in the same position and better than others then it's not doing badly. Singapore's response to the virus was exceptional (literally) but it has obvious advantages over the Scottish Government. I don't know why you think Russia is doing a better job, they seem to be extremely reluctant to let anyone know what's actually happening there, any links?  As for India, I think you're just plain wrong.

It's easy as f**k to say things are shite if you're not willing to propose an alternative that can be emulated within the bounds of what is actually possible given the 

The SG really could murder infants live on TV and you'd still be cheerleading. 

Jeane Freeman is a fucking idiot which doesn't help here. That doesnt mean she's any worse than that chubby simpleton Hancock. 

The SNP could be doing a lot better on health, even with the constraint of being tied to this dead union. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Bairn Necessities