When will indyref2 happen?

[John Lambies Doos]

The money wasn't always there - same as anyone else if you can't afford it you can't pay for it but in an emergency you are forced to borrow it from somewhere - then one day you have to pay it back

Pay back to who, everyone is in fucking debt, this is the big global lie. America are trillions in debt yet have announced trillions in economic stimulus.
Big lie to keep citizens quiet.

[Michael W]

The money isn't "there". It'll end up draining future budgets in the form of larger repayments. 

Inevitably, taxes will need to rise or borrowing increase to mitigate that impact. If not under the current government (which has backed itself into a corner on tax), the next one. 

[AUFC90]

The money isn't "there". It'll end up draining future budgets in the form of larger repayments. 
Inevitably, taxes will need to rise or borrowing increase to mitigate that impact. If not under the current government (which has backed itself into a corner on tax), the next one. 

How much better would the economy be if the Uk government had put 330bn into infrastructure and creating 40k a year a jobs maybe a few years ago rather than reduce spending ? Austerity has had an impact on economic growth. It hasn't worked and the next round won't work either.

[Cowden Cowboy]

1 hour ago, AUFC90 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok. Fact is the magic money tree that everyone said Labour were in fantasyland about does in fact exist and it's fucking huge. The genie is out the bottle. Wouldn't surprise me though if we just suck up the next round of austerity to "pay it back ".

 

The UK will never pay its debt back. It would be insane to do that.

 

 

 

So you would advocate just borrowing ever more money without limit as a positive policy

[Cowden Cowboy]

34 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

43 minutes ago, Michael W said:

The money isn't "there". It'll end up draining future budgets in the form of larger repayments. 
Inevitably, taxes will need to rise or borrowing increase to mitigate that impact. If not under the current government (which has backed itself into a corner on tax), the next one. 

How much better would the economy be if the Uk government had put 330bn into infrastructure and creating 40k a year a jobs maybe a few years ago rather than reduce spending ? Austerity has had an impact on economic growth. It hasn't worked and the next round won't work either.

And no clear evidence that your alternative would have been better

[SandyCromarty]

3 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

This is BritNat fuckwittery in all its rancid glory. 

We're only at the beginning of this crisis. Let's imagine a scenario where over the next couple of months we have thousands of deaths on an Italian scale, leading to a complete shutdown of the country. 

Johnson reacts to this by bumbling incoherently on television each day, and when asked why his government didn't react quicker to take the strict measures necessary at the beginning of the story, he has a meltdown and blames the press/the BBC/all liberals. 

On top of that, a year down the line and for decades to come, the price has to be paid for government's largesse today. Benefits are cut, local services are decimated, and the poorest in society are again targeted by the Tories. 

Events of the last few years have been impossible to predict, yet you think you can predict the future ? LOL.

Away back to The Great Brit*sh menu or whatever you crack one off to. 

Totally agree re the future financial implications but one you missed is that tax rates will be raised all round, business, income and VAT.

And not just in this country but others worldwide.

[Detournement]

2 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

So you would advocate just borrowing ever more money without limit as a positive policy

Yes. 

That's what America, China and any other country with an independent monetary policy intends to do. 

 

[ftk]

This is a glimpse of what life will be like in an independent Scotland [emoji40]

[itzdrk]

36 minutes ago, ftk said:

This is a glimpse of what life will be like in an independent Scotland

For England.... 

[Cowden Cowboy]

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

Yes. 

That's what America, China and any other country with an independent monetary policy intends to do. 

 

Good luck with persuading the people of Scotland that makes any sense

[AUFC90]

Good luck with persuading the people of Scotland that makes any sense

Considering the Scottish public are largely against austerity I would suggest you're talking shite.

[renton]

10 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Good luck with persuading the people of Scotland that makes any sense

Well, borrowing to stimulate growth is a good way of turning a deficit into a surplus (or at least to run a smaller more sustainable  deficit) which pays down the debt as a percentage of GDP.  The debt will never be paid down in full, and indeed it's pretty normal to run a deficit.

At the end of this, no doubt there will be some form of economic brutality visited upon the nation by the tories, but even if they have learned from 2010, it'd be stupid to choke off the stimulus after the crisis point passes. Far better to keep the spending taps on after everyone is back at work, pump it into pushing up demand. 

As to an independent Scotland? As usual we are left with counter factual history. All we have is how Scotland can react as part of the Union.

It's far fetched to imagine that we'd have reacted to the crisis with a joined up public plan for contact tracing and infection isolation as places like Singapore did, as unlike the SARS outbreak countries we in the West simply didn't have the experience of epidemics to make such a plan. Nevertheless it demonstrates that smaller nations with a few discrete entry and exit points may have flexibility for the inevitable next time this happens to work on a suppression plan that prevents total lockdown as Singapore has managed to now.

On the other hand, the Scandinavian and smaller Eurozone nations are mostly still enacting a version of government backed income schemes for isolated workers, so it's not like an Indy Scotland couldn't have reacted in that fashion either.  It's hardly a homegrown innovation of the UK Tory party. Certainly how nations conduct their monetary policy will play a huge role in how their public finances look a year down the line. No doubt the smaller Eurozone nations will find themselves somewhat st the mercy of the ECB and its German-centric views, yet that could be more of an annoyance than a serious gripe.

An Indy Scotland with it's own central bank and Indy currency would offer the greatest flexibility to deal with  crises like this. Current SNP party policy calls for a transition to an Indy currency (and no, EU membership only means we'd have to feint towards the Euro after an indeterminate time period of convergence) and who's to say that a different vote in 2014 wouldnt have seen us with an Indy currency by now?

In any event, this is a worldwide crisis with a common (in the west at least) response. An Indy Scotland would be no more or no less able to confront it as other nations have. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

No surprise at all to see racist creep Mintermind almost cracking a stauner over this crisis, just because it will affect an independence referendum. Truly a sub-human piece of shit. 

[Mastermind]

9 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

No surprise at all to see racist creep Mintermind almost cracking a stauner over this crisis, just because it will affect an independence referendum. Truly a sub-human piece of shit. 

Six years on and still frothing at the mouth. Delicious.

[Cowden Cowboy]

Considering the Scottish public are largely against austerity I would suggest you're talking shite.

But I obviously have a higher regard for the intellect of the Scottish people than you do with your Viv Nicholson view of economics that allegedly will produce a panacea

[AUFC90]

But I obviously have a higher regard for the intellect of the Scottish people than you do with your Viv Nicholson view of economics that allegedly will produce a panacea

Guy slags someone about economics then proceeds to white knight Tory austerity that has held back economic growth for the last decade......cool [emoji23].

 

We should pay it back all now. Said no economist ever.

 

[git-intae-thum]

13 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Good luck with persuading the people of Scotland that makes any sense

It is clearly the case that the people of Scotland are not stupid. After all, they are the only part of the UK that continues to withstand the Tory bullsh@t. The Conservatives thankfully remain a minority party for oddballs in this part of these islands.

We already have voices within the EU calling for the implementation of a new Marshall style plan when this is all over.

People in Scotland will look askance when they see their European neighbours letting government stimulus economic growth take them out of recession.

Meanwhile, according to Southern Tories, we will be stuck with decades of public debt driven austerity. This to make sure that their big business and billionaire pals remain sorted.

No thanks.

 

[Cowden Cowboy]

Guy slags someone about economics then proceeds to white knight Tory austerity that has held back economic growth for the last decade......cool [emoji23].  
We should pay it back all now. Said no economist ever.
 

Guy decides to selectively distort and conflate comments into something that was never said or implied. You should be a politician as that is how they tend to roll.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Guy decides to selectively distort and conflate comments into something that was never said or implied. You should be a politician as that is how they tend to roll.

You mean like this

So you would advocate just borrowing ever more money without limit as a positive policy

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

So i was a very very passionate supporter of independence, id say i still support it in principle but my issue arises that I find the SNP increasingly incompetent to the point where in December i had to hold my nose to vote for them. Now i get that right now isnt the time due to the health crisis, however I want an indy ref 2. My issue is that given the total clusterfuck of a response to the corona virus and lack of preparedness along with how badly they are messing up police funding etc I really dont think I can vote SNP anymore, but also I can’t vote for a unionist party. Id really like a non batshit mental indy party to emerge, not the monster raving nessie party led by stu campbell, salmond the octopus and craig murray et al, like a proper party that the SNP had the potential to be.