When will indyref2 happen?

[Malky3]

2 hours ago, Ross. said:

Scotland may be financially worse off, but there is no guarantee.

Currency is largely irrelevant. Scotland could use GBP, USD, EUR, CAD, AUD, JPY or the much vaunted Smackeroony for all it matters. A short term currency union with rUK while a separate Scottish currency is established would suit all parties and would likely happen if it came to it.

There are significant questions about healthcare across the UK, particularly as it is likely to be a key part of any trade deal with the US.

Scotland definitely won't be a member of the EU as part of the UK.

As far as the UK goes, you are seeing increasing levels of poverty, increasing levels of inequality, decreasing workers rights, the removal of EU membership, a constant weakening of the currency, an ever increasing national debt, an over reliance on the financial sector and service sector jobs, increasing household debt and decreasing public service standards pretty much across the board. I fail to see many positives for the UK remaining as it is.

Currency is not irrelevant. It's true we could use any currency we want, but whatever one we chose we'd be tied to following their economic policies. We would have no control of fiscal levers to stimulate growth with quantitative easing, or to adjust interest rates to suit our economy. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Ireland didn't flourish. Ireland had 80 years of economic strife after leaving the UK and it was ONLY when they finally joined the EU that they had a period of relative economic prosperity before going being bankrupted by the banking collapse in Ireland and economic stagnation yet again. If you think Ireland is a model we should follow you're barking mad. 

 

UK -- The full new State Pension is £168.60 per week.

 

Ireland -- The State pension in Ireland for a person aged 66 or over is €248.30 per week

Christ, I wish we had been bankrupt.........

Edited January 24, 2020 by WATTOO
Correction

[Malky3]

6 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

UK --- The current full basic state pension is £129.20 per week

Ireland -- The State pension in Ireland for a person aged 66 or over is €248.30 per week

Christ, I wish we had been bankrupt.........

So what? 

The UK is the worlds 5th largest economy. Ireland are 33rd on the list. 

The IMF forecasts stronger growth for the UK economy after Brexit than it does for Ireland who stay in the EU. 

The Irish Prime Minister says that the UK leaving the EU - particularly without a deal if it were to happen - would be catastrophic for the Irish economy. Yet nationalists, like you, want to put Scotland in EXACTLY that position. And the ONLY evidence you can point to is that Ireland pay in benefits to their middle class pensioners than the UK does. 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Malky3

[Guest]

Just now, Malky3 said:

So what? 

The UK is the worlds 5th largest economy. Ireland are 33rd on the list. 

The IMF forecasts stronger growth for the UK economy after Brexit than it does for Ireland who stay in the EU. 

The Irish Prime Minister says that the UK leaving the EU - particularly without a deal if it were to happen - would be catastrophic for the Irish economy. Yet nationalists, like you, want to put Scotland in EXACTLY that position. 

 

Yeah, I always tell the wealthy Irish guy I meet on holiday that his pension and lifestyle don't count for anything as "we're 5th and you're 33rd".

GIRFUY YA BASS !!!

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...........

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, WATTOO said:

Yeah, I always tell the wealthy Irish guy I meet on holiday that his pension and lifestyle don't count for anything as "we're 5th and you're 33rd".

GIRFUY YA BASS !!!

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...........

I'd rather live in the UK than Ireland. If it was the other way round I'd happily move. You stay in the UK whilst wanting to break it up so we can be like a country you could easily move to. I wonder why that is? 

[Guest]

Just now, Malky3 said:

I'd rather live in the UK than Ireland. If it was the other way round I'd happily move. You stay in the UK whilst wanting to break it up so we can be like a country you could easily move to. I wonder why that is? 

Que ???

[Malky3]

4 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Que ???

Ireland are not banning UK immigrants. There is no language barrier. It's not even far away. Indeed it's closer to parts of the Scottish west coast than the Scottish West Coast is to the East of Scotland. Infact even if one of your great great grandparents was a quarter Irish you'd be able to claim an Irish passport. If you fancy their economic prospects far more than you do those at home then why not do the obvious and go there to work and live? They would absolutely welcome you. Why spend all that time and energy trying to break up the UK, leaving Scots with the prospect of economic hardship for all of our lifetimes so we "might" be like Ireland? 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Malky3

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, MixuFixit said:

All I know is colleagues doing a similar job to me in Ireland earn about 20% more.

So why are you still in England? 

[Ross.]

18 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Currency is not irrelevant. It's true we could use any currency we want, but whatever one we chose we'd be tied to following their economic policies. We would have no control of fiscal levers to stimulate growth with quantitative easing, or to adjust interest rates to suit our economy. 

So you agree then, the sensible approach is to tie into an agreement with rUK initially and establish a sovereign currency as quickly as it practicable. Thanks for confirming.

[Malky3]

Just now, Ross. said:

So you agree then, the sensible approach is to tie into an agreement with rUK initially and establish a sovereign currency as quickly as it practicable. Thanks for confirming.

The most sensible approach would be to stay in the UK, obviously, where we have enjoyed tremendous success as part of a hugely successful economy. 

I don't waste much time stressing over what economy Scotland should follow if a hypothetical Independence was ever to happen. What I do know however is whilst you use someone else's currency you do not have control of the fiscal levers that we are used to seeing the Bank Of England use to stimulate the UK economy. The fact that the SNP and the Nationalist movement can't verify with any certainty what currency they would use despite having 6 years to formulate a plan speaks volumes about just how stupid Scottish Independence would be. 

[Ross.]

Just now, Malky3 said:

The most sensible approach would be to stay in the UK, obviously, where we have enjoyed tremendous success as part of a hugely successful economy. 

I don't waste much time stressing over what economy Scotland should follow if a hypothetical Independence was ever to happen. What I do know however is whilst you use someone else's currency you do not have control of the fiscal levers that we are used to seeing the Bank Of England use to stimulate the UK economy. The fact that the SNP and the Nationalist movement can't verify with any certainty what currency they would use despite having 6 years to formulate a plan speaks volumes about just how stupid Scottish Independence would be. 

Despite being given an answer by me as to what approach I think would work best, you are claiming no one can verify what approach they think would work best?

[Dan Steele]

27 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Do you HONESTLY think that the people of Scotland would have tolerated their government hoarding money whilst allowing the steelworks and coal mines to shut down?

But surely the steelworks and coal mines were shut down by a Westminster government? Would an independent Scotland have done it in the same fashion - if it had to be done at all? Is a fund with reserves not meant to be a financial umbrella to be used to alleviate, solve problems and create a more equitable country?

[Malky3]

Just now, The Skelpit Lug said:

But surely the steelworks and coal mines were shut down by a Westminster government? Would an independent Scotland have done it in the same fashion - if it had to be done at all? Is a fund with reserves not meant to be a financial umbrella to be used to alleviate, solve problems and create a more equitable country?

The steelworks was closed by the private company that owned them. British Steel had been sold off in 1988 and Ravenscraig was closed down in 1992. 

The mines were publicly owned. In 1983 the UK Government announced £3Bn worth of investment in the industry opening new collieries but in 1984 the NUM claimed that it had information that the NCB was going to close a number of collieries, a claim which led to the strike. The strike meant that previously viable mines were left unattended and unmaintained. Many of them flooded and the cost to re-establish them was too great to make then financially viable.  

However the point is that sentiment in Scotland at the time was very much that the UK Government should spend unlimited sums of money propping up those industries with subsidies and financial aid. Had an Independent Scottish government been hoarding vast sums of money - like the Norwegian government did - I am 100% certain that Scots would not have tolerated it. 

[DublinMagyar]

All I know is colleagues doing a similar job to me in Ireland earn about 20% more.

Hello!

[strichener]

8 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

10 hours ago, strichener said:

You have the audacity to question the ability of others to understand basic English.
That you misunderstood the context of using "once in a generation" does not make it debunked.  Feel free to post a proper breakdown of the aforementioned debunking that is more than your own skewed interpretation.

Yawn

Interested in this response, I'll read it in more detail later.

[Bairnardo]

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ian-blackford-snp-brexit-house-of-commons-constitutional-crisis-a9299506.html

State of this.

[The_Kincardine]

1 hour ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

But surely the steelworks and coal mines were shut down by a Westminster government? Would an independent Scotland have done it in the same fashion - if it had to be done at all? Is a fund with reserves not meant to be a financial umbrella to be used to alleviate, solve problems and create a more equitable country?

Oddly enough Ravenscraig owed its existence to Tory interventionism in the 50s by incentivising Roots to set up a car plant in Linwood and subsidising the development of the Ravenscraig strip mill to supply said plant.

The only reason there was, in fact, such steel production in Motherwell was pretty-much down to government support.  The idea of producing steel in an area which no longer had iron ore was a bit daft - which is why Stewart and Lloyds fucked off to Corby in the 1930s.

So it's pretty easy to argue that Westminster did provide Scotland with a " financial umbrella" by investing in a production plant with imported and expensive raw materials and by supporting a manufacturing facility at Linwood which was never really all that good - albeit it one that did do the original pressings for the Volvo P1800 - an astonishingly beautiful car.

[AUFC90]

The difference being, the UK has much more power in negotiations with the EU (who are playing games but will come around eventually) and other large economies around the world. Scotland on its own won’t have that clout, and the UK will benefit little from helping them find a currency, whereas the EU will clearly benefit from trading with the UK.

Scotland leaving the UK will cause England damage than the UK would leaving the EU. Even to a dribbling simpleton such as yourself that should seem pretty obvious.

Please Scotland, please don't leave us, family of nations etc etc, saltires on downing st because they were do desperate to keep "subsidising" us Scots.

[Big Rider]

Don’t ignore it Blinky, you ARE a dribbling simpleton. 

 

[Big Rider]

Thanks for that Blinky. Your recent posts indicate you practice the opposite of what you preach. Good luck now.