When will indyref2 happen?

[Blootoon87]

Should we be wary of Labour types trying to split support for independence? Could all be a big ruse to reduce vote share in future elections. 

Worries me a wee bit as well. Labour could become less pig headed about independence and win a few more seats. Any drop in SNP seats, even say 40 SNP, 13 Labour, 6 Tory would see the media paint it as a massive drop in support for independence, no mandate etc.

[dirty dingus]

20 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said:

29 minutes ago, SweeperDee said:

Should we be wary of Labour types trying to split support for independence? Could all be a big ruse to reduce vote share in future elections. 

Worries me a wee bit as well. Labour could become less pig headed about independence and win a few more seats. Any drop in SNP seats, even say 40 SNP, 13 Labour, 6 Tory would see the media paint it as a massive drop in support for independence, no mandate etc.

They can do their penance by supporting YES whilst still being on the sidelines then after Indy they can join in the politics again.

[BawWatchin]

22 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said:

31 minutes ago, SweeperDee said:

Should we be wary of Labour types trying to split support for independence? Could all be a big ruse to reduce vote share in future elections. 

Worries me a wee bit as well. Labour could become less pig headed about independence and win a few more seats. Any drop in SNP seats, even say 40 SNP, 13 Labour, 6 Tory would see the media paint it as a massive drop in support for independence, no mandate etc.

Wouldn't work. Labour would have to be clearly in favour for independence to have any hope of clawing some votes back. The media wouldn't be able to spin it. The real concern is Labour splitting the independence vote, paving the way for tory gains in Scotland.

[Hillonearth]

11 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Wouldn't work. Labour would have to be clearly in favour for independence to have any hope of clawing some votes back. The media wouldn't be able to spin it. The real concern is Labour splitting the independence vote, paving the way for tory gains in Scotland.

They're caught between a rock and a hard place on the subject of independence. Should they come down in favour, they'd lose as much support if not more than they could possibly gain from the change in stance.

I imagine most pro-independence former Labour voters that have made the switch - and I'm one of them - have absolutely no intention of going back to Labour until the job is done. The Labour party up here aren't the one I used to support who the likes of John Smith used to typify...from what I've seen most of the activists up here seem to be either unrepentant old tankies for whom the Labour party was always more of a - red - flag of convenience or Momentumy types that never grew out of student politics.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, dirty dingus said:

This was in the post when the results started coming in, he was nearly greetin and you could tell he knew that Corbyn or left wing politics wasn't going to be accepted by the rest of the UK.

The Labour party's demise in Scotland was accelerated when they picked Jim Murphy over Findlay for the leadership. That, more than anything else, was the moment when they moved away from traditional Labour values and towards "not-SNP" values. Any move back in the opposite direction can only be a good thing for the diversity of politics in this country.

[The_Kincardine]

6 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

There will always be nutters who attach themselves to any nationalist movement.

 

5 hours ago, Crùbag said:

Absolute claptrap. The Yes movement is patently multi-cultural and English Scots for Yes very visible.

Finding one or two nutters does not disprove that fact.

Except I didn't have to look far to find them.

The problem for the Yessersphere is that it's no longer rogue nutters.  They are now verging on the mainstream..

Edited December 15, 2019 by The_Kincardine

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

They are no verging on the mainstream

Aye, a rarity right enough.

[The_Kincardine]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Aye, a rarity right enough.

An even greater rarity is that my most recent ex wife sent me a couple of jars of her homemade inlagd sill yesterday as she and two of the weans are off to Sverige for Jul.  If you're passing through South Bucks before Tuesday pop in for some.

[NotThePars]

Should we be wary of Labour types trying to split support for independence? Could all be a big ruse to reduce vote share in future elections. 

I would say, no. The people fighting for it within the party are earnest Yes voters.

[Dunfermline Don]

This was a reply on a friends FB post from an ex colleague who lives in England. The Scottish based guy had posted that he was feeling quite worried about the current political situation in the UK
We basically should just suck up and be grateful that they allow us to stay!


“If l was you ####,l would more worried about what Nicola Sturgeon wants to do, and speaks about Boris like his a disaster to Scotland, and when she makes Scotland have another referendum you will not have to be terrified anymore to what we do in our UK, after all we have housed most Scots in the UK for years, and they have done well out of it.”

[SweeperDee]

10 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

I would say, no. The people fighting for it within the party are earnest Yes voters.

 

How can we trust what they say though?

[ICTJohnboy]

26 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

An even greater rarity is that my most recent ex wife sent me a couple of jars of her homemade inlagd sill yesterday as she and two of the weans are off to Sverige for Jul.  If you're passing through South Bucks before Tuesday pop in for some.

 

Your "most recent" ex wife?

You and Boris seem to have a lot in common. How many kids have you got?

[NotThePars]

How can we trust what they say though?

 

I mean I can only vouch for the people I know personally who actively campaigned during 2014 and have had the same battles within the Labour Party. Some people probably will cynically pivot and some indy supporters are going to continue insisting every Yes voter who appears in Scottish Labour media is an actor. I’m not sure yet how to bridge that or even if it’s necessary. If it’s a cynical move and they end up taking SNP votes under false pretences then they’ll be completely finished and rightly so. There’s a long way to go before that’s even a possibility, however.

[The_Kincardine]

13 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Your "most recent" ex wife?

You and Boris seem to have a lot in common. How many kids have you got?

Oh only the three, two of whom were born in Jockland.  Thank f**k we managed to escape early enough so that they could get a proper education in decent English grammar schools rather than squander 6 years.

[ICTJohnboy]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

Oh only the three, two of whom were born in Jockland.  Thank f**k we managed to escape early enough so that they could get a proper education in decent English grammar schools rather than squander 6 years.

 

Oh dear, that's very sad.

You just can't beat a Scottish education, mate...

50 years later, and my mind is still full of irregular verbs.

[The_Kincardine]

3 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

You just can't couldn't beat a Scottish education, mate...

50 years later, and my mind is still full of irregular verbs.

We had the delight of having an education in Scotland when it mattered.

[John Lambies Doos]

Worries me a wee bit as well. Labour could become less pig headed about independence and win a few more seats. Any drop in SNP seats, even say 40 SNP, 13 Labour, 6 Tory would see the media paint it as a massive drop in support for independence, no mandate etc.

Insignificant tbh. Last Thursday was the UK's last ever GE which Scotland will participate in.

[Crùbag]

2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

Except I didn't have to look far to find them.

The problem for the Yessersphere is that it's no longer rogue nutters.  They are now verging on the mainstream..

I've seen three separate hate incidents in England since Boris was elected. It's like Trump with the KKK coming out onto the streets.

You stated that the Yes movement is 'ethno-nationalist' and the best you could come up with is that some, very few, hate the English.

Yet, we march, all different colours and nationalities in our tens of thousands. And, we elected representatives who openly welcome immigrants.

I understand you're bitter but please, don't be ludicrous.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Crùbag

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, Crùbag said:

some, very few, hate the English.

The only debate now is if it's many or most who hate the English.  We went past 'very few' quite some time ago.  Still, you're posting on a forum where 'I hate England' is judged as acceptable comment.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

I for one welcome our new post independence Labour overlords.