When will indyref2 happen?

[Hedgecutter]

1 hour ago, Aufc said:

The snp will need to produce better financial information to convince a lot of people. I say this as someone who voted no last time but would almost certainly vote yes this time

 

Indeed.  They need to be a bit more honest this time around, and if it involves eventually ditching the pound and going down the Euro route as a potential option, then so be it.

The main difference is that a No vote was previously a vote for the status quo.  Thanks to a now inevitable Brexit, change is imminently upon us whether they want it or not, which'll make a considerable difference to many imo

Edited December 13, 2019 by Hedgecutter

[yoda]

I think I've posted several times on my preferred currency option. I'm obviously biased but it makes a lot more sense than most other options.

• New Scottish currency
• No Sterling peg
• Don't join the Euro (but, if need be, make empty promises about maybe one day joining it if the stars align correctly)

 

 

[the snudge]

1 hour ago, git-intae-thum said:

An officially organised blockchain covenant.

When signed by 50% plus 1 of the Scottish electorate it is an unarguable mandate for UDI.

 

The only problem with this is, 

"what the f**k is an organised block chain covenant"? 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Indeed.  They need to be a bit more honest this time around,

Nonsense. Have you learnt nothing?

If Nicola wants to be taken seriously then she needs to start hiding in fridges

[welshbairn]

11 minutes ago, the snudge said:

The only problem with this is, 

"what the f**k is an organised block chain covenant"? 

Exactly, what better way to disenfranchise all the nazi pensioners? 

[NotThePars]

I remember being in History in high school and our teacher, to demonstrate parliamentary responses to what I think were the Chartists, would ask the class to pass a petition round for everyone to sign and hand over to him which he would then promptly scrunch up and throw in the bin. Kinda feel any sort of "organised block chain covenant" would be treated the same way.

[Mastermind]

Ill add to comment above.

The issue i reckon is that you have two sides

- people like malky who trot out that scotland spends £12.6bn more than we receive. To be fair to Malky, he is using a gov.scot source which most people would assume to be correct. On the other side, my question is if this is the case why do the uk want to keep us?

- on the other side you have the snp supporters who round on him and tell him he is talking rubbish. However, i have never seen any financial figures from them and every source i look online refers back to this £12.6bn. There were a few comments about that figure not taking into account other figures.

I sit somewhere in the middle. Emotionally, i would love Scotland to be a prosperous country and all decisions taken in scotland were made for the good of the country. However, i can look beyond that and want definite figures as to how an independent scotland would look financially.

I would imagine that this is the feeling of a lot of people. If the snp were to provide figures then i reckon they would easily get the majority. To be honest, even if they came out and said the financials were not looking great but offered a plausible solution then I am sure no voters would be willing to back them

Yep, until this is sorted the quiet, sensible majority will always tell the fantasists where to go.

[BishopLenBrennan]

I think the key to winning this time around is how the official Yes campaign is organised and delivered. The SNP need to realise that there isn't anything to be gained from them being front and centre of the Yes campaign, it needs to be seen as a diverse cross-party campaign. There are guys like Patrick Harvie waiting in the wings, to offer cross party support. There are also some experienced campaigners (with mixed political results) like Colin Fox and the Radical Independence Campaign guys. Those guys stand a far better chance of convincing and converting unionists than an SNP politician does. The SNP are both the most loved, and the most hated party in Scotland, and it's important we recognise this and work around it. There is also going to need to be a watertight media campaign, which will need to be funded properly. Without going all tinfoil hat about it, the British establishment will be throwing absolutely everything at this and we need to have answers to everything. 

Let's get it fucking done. 

[the snudge]

They need a catchy slogan. f**k policies and facts. It's all about the slogan. Get indy done. Make Scotland great again. 

[ford prefect]

They need a catchy slogan. f**k policies and facts. It's all about the slogan. Get indy done. Make Scotland great again. 

On a big red bus. Always makes me laugh when people demand minute intricate details on how an independent Scotland would be, but will vote for Boris if he plasters a huge obvious lie on a bus and his election campaign revolved around lying about his NHS recruitment and"get Brexit done" zero fucking details but the gammons lap it up

 

[BishopLenBrennan]

On 13/12/2019 at 22:01, MixuFixit said:

I respect your reasoning but actually disagree fundamentally. I think holding Yes Scotland at arm's length last time was a major mistake. There was a lot of grousing about them pulling their punches because they were staffed with nice, but novice campaigners.

The SNP has spent a good few years hoovering up a lot of the talent that were in these allied organisations so I'd want the next campaign to be firmly driven by the SNP.

I think that's a far more risky strategy. It risks underestimating how many staunch 'anyone but the SNP and anything they support' types there are. If we can have a capable campaigner and speaker like Harvie or Fox underlining the fact that the SNP don't have a monopoly on the Yes campaign it could prove far more fruitful. There is enough talent and political nous outwith the SNP to deliver enough of a swing to clinch it. The SNP's role in the next referendum is to provide the funding, and ensure a high turnout in their support. If they also want to take the lead on convincing floating voters then we run a massive risk of the staunch types simply not listening to the speech because they don't like the speaker. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by BishopLenBrennan

[Gordon EF]

13 minutes ago, ford prefect said:

16 minutes ago, the snudge said:

They need a catchy slogan. f**k policies and facts. It's all about the slogan. Get indy done. Make Scotland great again. 

On a big red bus. Always makes me laugh when people demand minute intricate details on Ian independent Scotland would be, but will vote for Boris if he plasters a huge obvious lie on a bus and his election campaign revolved around lying about his NHS recruitment and"get Brexit done" zero fucking details but the gammons lap it up

Exactly. Stuff like that's a red herring. The people screaming for it have no intention of changing tehir mind, no matter what's put in front of them. We shouldn't get caught up in it.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Gordon EF

[Dunfermline Don]

My English born Labour voting oldest son is now firmly behind Indy2. Just need to persuade my English Lib Dem wife now.

[johnthebaptistist]

The key to winning Indyref2 is to get a couple of thousand protesters, mandatory saltire flags, marching in George Square. Not just once though, do it every 3 months. I'm sure the Catalans for independence, French air traffic controllers and farmers will be embarrassed by doing their protesting all wrong.

[Mr Heliums]

40 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

 I'd want the next campaign to be firmly driven by the SNP.

Trouble is that then you're fighting on two fronts: the independence question and the SNP's domestic agenda. A near-constant yet bizarre anti-indy argument is the SNP's record in office. People conflate indy and the SNP all the time.

[Mastermind]

The key to winning Indyref2 is to get a couple of thousand protesters, mandatory saltire flags, marching in George Square. Not just once though, do it every 3 months. I'm sure the Catalans for independence, French air traffic controllers and farmers will be embarrassed by doing their protesting all wrong.

Badly need to show Braveheart a few more times too, preferably with Tommy Sheridan alongside again.

[ford prefect]

Trouble is that then you're fighting on two fronts: the independence question and the SNP's domestic agenda. A near-constant yet bizarre anti-indy argument is the SNP's record in office. People conflate indy and the SNP all the time.

Absolutely. I vote SNP to get independence. Then I'd hope we'd get a social democratic party I could vote for. You know one like the labour party should be

[dirty dingus]

4 minutes ago, Mastermind said:

 

Badly need to show Braveheart a few more times too, preferably with Tommy Sheridan alongside again.

 

Yes peaceful protests are so passe, we can start a Yes flute band and copy the Yoons play dress up kiddy on soldiers and bang and blow our toy instuments while marching about the streets full of pent up anger whilst getting ignored by the general public

[Savage Henry]

Given Boris has zero need to grant Scotland a referendum and zero scruples about ignoring any expressed democratic will to hold one, what’s the path to independence? Civil disobedience?

I’d suggest an open letter or perhaps a change.org petition.

[alta-pete]

Interesting tone from Boris’s (my autocorrect wants to write ‘virus’s’, make of that what you will!) speech. Very much ‘One Nation’, think he’s lining up to adopt an attitude that SNP got 4% of the total vote and will be treated as such. I imagine Nicola’s blood pressure will be on the rise over the next 5 years.