Mastermind Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I have voted SNP in every election and voted Yes in the referendum. I highly doubt that I could be converted in to voting No. I never hear anything from Unionists or political parties to convince me otherwise with anything containing facts. Can any of the Unionists on here, try and convince me to vote No in the next indyref? Your points must be factual and backed up with evidence.It’s the bitter Nats that need to convince the sensible majority that Scotland would be better off independent. I’m sure if the Yessers can provide cast-iron guarantees that we’ll all be better off outwith the UK then I don’t see why we wouldn’t vote to leave Britain. You’ll need to do better than just perma-raging at the usual list of suspects and provide some actual evidence and guarantees. Over to you. -8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Just now, Mastermind said: It’s the bitter Nats that need to convince the sensible majority that Scotland would be better off independent. I’m sure if the Yessers can provide cast-iron guarantees that we’ll all be better off outwith the UK then I don’t see why we wouldn’t vote to leave Britain. You’ll need to do better than just perma-raging at the usual list of suspects and provide some actual evidence and guarantees. Over to you. Or just write some made up bollocks about funding the NHS on the side of a bus. The gormless idiots will vote for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Mastermind said: It’s the bitter Nats that need to convince the sensible majority that Scotland would be better off independent. I’m sure if the Yessers can provide cast-iron guarantees that we’ll all be better off outwith the UK then I don’t see why we wouldn’t vote to leave Britain. You’ll need to do better than just perma-raging at the usual list of suspects and provide some actual evidence and guarantees. Over to you. How am I "perma raging"? I asked an open question to which I have had no answer apart from a pretty loose argument about the currency that has a counter answer, but fair enough I see the fear for some on this. I know why I am voting Yes, I was wanting some genuine reasons for me to vote No. Come on then, why do you feel it is "sensible" to vote No, please back this up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMDP Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mastermind said: It’s the bitter Nats that need to convince the sensible majority that Scotland would be better off independent. I’m sure if the Yessers can provide cast-iron guarantees that we’ll all be better off outwith the UK then I don’t see why we wouldn’t vote to leave Britain. You’ll need to do better than just perma-raging at the usual list of suspects and provide some actual evidence and guarantees. Over to you. Can you ever make a political point without throwing in lots of dreadful insults? Across this website, lots of people have made excellent cases for a future in an independent Scotland. Can you make guarantees that by remaining tied to the UK, Scotland won't continue along the terrible road it's on. 130,000 people have died thanks to Tory austerity. The hostile environment, rape clause, bedroom tax, swinging cuts everywhere that have had a dreadful impact on the economic and social fabric of a society that brings us to a place where a prominent government MP can denigrate deceased victims of a tragedy live on air without it being a resigning issue on the same day that they splice videos to mislead during a campaign. Can you provide some actual evidence and guarantees that we'll not carry down this sorry road? Over to you. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 How am I "perma raging"? I asked an open question to which I have had no answer apart from a pretty loose argument about the currency that has a counter answer, but fair enough I see the fear for some on this. I know why I am voting Yes, I was wanting some genuine reasons for me to vote No. Come on then, why do you feel it is "sensible" to vote No, please back this up.The reason for voting No is because there is no guarantee that things will be even slightly better if we’re independent, or that things won’t be a huge deal worse. It’s the majority view and it’s quite simple really. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blootoon87 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 The reason for voting No is because there is no guarantee that things will be even slightly better if we’re independent, or that things won’t be a huge deal worse. It’s the majority view and it’s quite simple really. How do you know it's the majority view? It certainly was over five years ago, better have another vote to make sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mastermind said: The reason for voting No is because there is no guarantee that things will be even slightly better if we’re independent, or that things won’t be a huge deal worse. It’s the majority view and it’s quite simple really. In that case then, do you believe that, staying as we are, things will get slightly better or have no chance of being a huge deal worse? Do you think it is more 'fear of the unknown' that the majority vote No for? I don't think it's quite as simple as you make out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 How do you know it's the majority view? It certainly was over five years ago, better have another vote to make sure. I’m more than happy to have another vote. Until then if you can provide any better evidence that it’s not a minority view I’d be delighted. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 8 hours ago, BawWatchin said: But what if the child is old enough to leave their parents and no longer requires pocket money? Why can't they get a morgage on their house from the bank like their parents did? Did you ask the bank this when they rejected your mortgage application? Your Mummy and Daddy combined were probably earning more than you do. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 In that case then, do you believe that, staying as we are, things will get slightly better or have no chance of being a huge deal worse? Do you think it is more 'fear of the unknown' that the majority vote No for? I don't think it's quite as simple as you make out.My honest opinion is that things may get slightly better or slightly worse as different Governments come and go as part of the UK and we see what happens with Brexit.However becoming independent and starting a new country from scratch is a monumental risk and a different ball game altogether. We’ll need to see some much stronger arguments next time round to change the minds of the majority. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 30 minutes ago, Mastermind said: The reason for voting No is because there is no guarantee that things will be even slightly better if we’re independent, or that things won’t be a huge deal worse. It’s the majority view and it’s quite simple really. Absolutely. The Nationalists deal in hyperbole. "if you vote for Johnson you're voting to hand the NHS to Trump" and they do this without any facts or evidence. Yet whilst they keep screaming they continue to refuse to tell us how an Independent Scottish government would be able to make the books balance onve they turn off the tap from London and the South East. The Scottish NHS annual budget in total would just about cover the shortfall. Perhaps the reason the SNP is pedaling their nonsense is because they really hope to divert attention away from their own plans. The Nationalist propaganda leaflet posted through my door today claimed the ONLY way to stop Brexit was to vote SNP. That truly is nonsense. Voting for a party that can only ever be a minority party at Westminster is a complete waste of a vote if you want to stop Brexit. Obviously a better way for those voters would be to vote Lib Dem. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only an observer Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, Malky3 said: Absolutely. The Nationalists deal in hyperbolescreaming they continue to refuse to tell us how an Independent Scottish government would be able to make the books balance onve they turn off the tap from London and the South East. The Scottish NHS annual budget in total would just about cover the shortfall. Perhaps the reason the SNP is pedaling their nonsense is because they really hope to divert attention away from their own plans. The Nationalist propaganda leaflet posted through my door today claimed the ONLY way to stop Brexit was to vote SNP. That truly is nonsense. Voting for a party that can only ever be a minority party at Westminster is a complete waste of a vote if you want to stop Brexit. Obviously a better way for those voters would be to vote Lib Dem. "if you vote for Johnson you're voting to hand the NHS to Trump" and they do this without any facts or evidence. Have a wee gander at Dispatches, Channel 4 Trump's plan for the NHS , October 28 . Just a journalist trying to do a job 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMDP Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 31 minutes ago, Malky3 said: Absolutely. The Nationalists deal in hyperbole. "if you vote for Johnson you're voting to hand the NHS to Trump" and they do this without any facts or evidence. Yet whilst they keep screaming they continue to refuse to tell us how an Independent Scottish government would be able to make the books balance onve they turn off the tap from London and the South East. The Scottish NHS annual budget in total would just about cover the shortfall. Perhaps the reason the SNP is pedaling their nonsense is because they really hope to divert attention away from their own plans. The Nationalist propaganda leaflet posted through my door today claimed the ONLY way to stop Brexit was to vote SNP. That truly is nonsense. Voting for a party that can only ever be a minority party at Westminster is a complete waste of a vote if you want to stop Brexit. Obviously a better way for those voters would be to vote Lib Dem. So, those questions? Those facts? Those figures? Those studies? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Only an observer said: "if you vote for Johnson you're voting to hand the NHS to Trump" and they do this without any facts or evidence. Have a wee gander at Dispatches, Channel 4 Trump's plan for the NHS , October 28 . Just a journalist trying to do a job Did you watch it? The journalst claimed Trump might want the NHS to pay more for US Pharma drugs and the former US Trade negotiator said the UK might want to keep that off the table but that might not be attractive to the USA. A hell of a lot of "mights" for a Trade Deal that hasn't been negotiated yet and certainly no justification whatsoever for the Nationalists rhetoric on the subject. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 12 hours ago, Ross. said: Hi Malky, Please back up your claim that Scotland "earns" the equivalent of £2 per week when compared to the rest of the UK. Thanks. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Poor Ross. Too stupid to understand an analogy.... -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 53 minutes ago, Mastermind said: My honest opinion is that things may get slightly better or slightly worse as different Governments come and go as part of the UK and we see what happens with Brexit. However becoming independent and starting a new country from scratch is a monumental risk and a different ball game altogether. We’ll need to see some much stronger arguments next time round to change the minds of the majority. I don't see it as starting a new country from scratch, Scotland is already a country, with its own government, police force, health service etc... I just can't be persuaded by the "monumental risk" "no guarantee" argument. You can say the same about staying in the Union. I can understand why people with that opinion would vote No and that it's mainly down to fear of change. If people with that mindset just educated themselves more the fear might leave and the opinions might change. Have you anymore reasons for me to vote No? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 The reason for voting No is because there is no guarantee that things will be even slightly better if we’re independent, or that things won’t be a huge deal worse. It’s the majority view and it’s quite simple really. I can guarantee things will be a shitload worse after Brexit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, johnnydun said: I don't see it as starting a new country from scratch, Scotland is already a country, with its own government, police force, health service etc... I just can't be persuaded by the "monumental risk" "no guarantee" argument. You can say the same about staying in the Union. I can understand why people with that opinion would vote No and that it's mainly down to fear of change. If people with that mindset just educated themselves more the fear might leave and the opinions might change. Have you anymore reasons for me to vote No? £12.6Bn more. You talk about educating yourself yet you really think cutting ourselves adrift would have fewer risks than the status quo. You've ignored evidence even when its provided by the Scottish Government and when it comes from fiscal experts. I suspect the brainwashing done on you has been so readily ingrained you are now little more than a lemming intent on your own destruction. Edited November 6, 2019 by Malky3 -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthshire Bellotelli Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, Malky3 said: £12.6Bn more. You talk about educating yourself yet you really think cutting ourselves adrift would have fewer risks than the staatus quo. You've ignored evidence even when its provided by the Scottish Government and when it comes from fiscal experts. I suspect the brainwashing done on you has been so readily ingrained you are now little more than a lemming intent on your own destruction. Presumably in the majority of years where Scotland's economy was in relative surplus you were wrapped in the saltire? Anyone, taking a completely neutral view to Scotland's finances would conclude we be a normal country again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Malky3 said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Poor Ross. Too stupid to understand an analogy.... Poor Malky, unable to back up the implications of his analogy... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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