When will indyref2 happen?

[Gaz FFC]

9 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

Do you mean Michael Forsyth? Frederick's the author.

Nope.

I've just seen him call Independence voters "gullible"

[Gaz FFC]

[BawWatchin]

8 hours ago, Malky3 said:

Where do you get your figures from? 

The GERs Report is quite clear. Scotland raises £62.708Bn in revenue and our total public sector expenditure is £75.388Bn. I've attached proof for you.

60% of that which isn't spent by the Scottish Government, but by a UK Government on things that you can't tell me, because the UK Government doesn't state what it is spent on in Scotland.

It's almost as if they're aware that we'd be shocked and outraged if we knew.....

[dirty dingus]

7 hours ago, Malky3 said:

Dear of dear.

yer Da'

 

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

7 hours ago, Malky3 said:

I've literally no answer to the question.

FTFY. And so much easier for everyone to read. So, how would an independent Scotland not be able to borrow?

[Malky3]

4 hours ago, hearthammer said:

Saw the message was from wee malky, then saw the length of the message, then saw £12.6bn, then made an (easy) executive decision, then didn't read.

Bet he tells the other people in his ward that he is the one who is sorting out all this nat tosh on the internet by correcting the aye-sayers of the errors of their collective ways.  Maybe he thinks he's Nurse Rached's favourite.

Poor malky.

 

It wasn't aimed at you. It's aimed at Scots with an IQ above 15.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Malky3

[Malky3]

3 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

60% of that which isn't spent by the Scottish Government, but by a UK Government on things that you can't tell me, because the UK Government doesn't state what it is spent on in Scotland.

It's almost as if they're aware that we'd be shocked and outraged if we knew.....

Nonsense. It's all in the UK budget. Maybe you think a post Independence Scotland doesn't need pensions or welfare. Is that what you'd cut to balance the books? 

[BawWatchin]

4 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Nonsense. It's all in the UK budget. Maybe you think a post Independence Scotland doesn't need pensions or welfare. Is that what you'd cut to balance the books? 

Yep, all in the UK budget. Conveniently hidden away, mixed amongst the total UK spend figures.

[welshbairn]

10 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

It wasn't aimed at you. It's aimed at Scots with an IQ above 15.

Malky attempting to punch above his weight there, risky strategy.

[hearthammer]

33 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

It wasn't aimed at you.It's aimed at Scots with an IQ above 15.

Well, get you, preppy   

[AUFC90]

First time I've ever heard someone try to argue that sticking with Tory Brexit UK is good for Scotland as it has an ageing population and needs more immigrants [emoji23][emoji23].

 

f**k me. An ageing population is one of the many reasons to cast Little Britain adrift.

 

 

[Jambomo]

Awful stuff, the comments are worse. I realised though that the way to get an independence vote is to start encouraging the English (such as those on the comments page of that article) that getting rid of Scotland is the next step for England.

Boris will fall over himself to grant anything that will keep him and the Tories safely in power and achieving their Brexit dream.

[git-intae-thum]

So. Of the 100 percent of revenue Scotland raises, 60 percent is kept by Westminster, who generously give us 40 percent back.

We then get a bill through the post saying we have overspent and have had to have a sub from Westminster.

Ok. Fair is fair. Let's see the books. We know the exact minutiae to the pound and pence of what Scotgov spend our hard earned cash on.Can we have the same level of scrutiny of the Westminster accounts please. 

I want to know what Scotlands money is spent on. I don't think estimates and approximations will really do now at this stage. With another referendum looming, I think those advocating remaining in this union really need to start providing some clarity.

[git-intae-thum]

Whilst we await clarity on how our money is being spent.

This seems an interesting link found on the taxation research website.

https://financecurse.net/uncategorized/how-financialisation-worsens-britains-regional-divide/

It carefully explains one example of how money is being sucked from the regions (including Scotland in a UK financial sense) and collected in the middle.

The money is then shown for taxation purposes as profit earned in London. Obviously the region shows a mounting deficit over the following years.

This results in the appearance of a rich London subsidizing poorer regions.

Where have we heard that one before?

It truly is Hunger games economics. People should be scandalised.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

Still not found out how an independent Scotland couldn't borrow.

As an accountant, the way I always present the current situation:

One department invests £22billion on tick, recharges 10% to other department because it's 'important for the business'. First department gets all the benefit of said investment to help pay off 90% of the bill, while telling latter department that it is £2.2billion in debt with no way of paying it back. It's a fucking financial basket case. 

[strichener]

8 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

So. Of the 100 percent of revenue Scotland raises, 60 percent is kept by Westminster, who generously give us 40 percent back.

We then get a bill through the post saying we have overspent and have had to have a sub from Westminster.

Ok. Fair is fair. Let's see the books. We know the exact minutiae to the pound and pence of what Scotgov spend our hard earned cash on.Can we have the same level of scrutiny of the Westminster accounts please. 

I want to know what Scotlands money is spent on. I don't think estimates and approximations will really do now at this stage. With another referendum looming, I think those advocating remaining in this union really need to start providing some clarity.

No we don't know the exact minutiae of how the Scottish Government spends our money.  The Auditor General has been very clear that further financial transparency is required.

It is misleading to claim that Scotland is only given 40% back.  Unless you are claiming that Scotland does not receive any money for pensions or welfare spending when we have historically received a higher amount per capita than the UK as a whole.

According to the UK government 88% of public expenditure is identifiable to where it is spent.  See https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/759560/Country_and_Regional_Analysis_November_2018_rvsd.pdf

The 12% includes elements such as overseas aid which the Scottish government has generally agreed with and has in the past topped up from within their own budget.

Of course your 60% number also includes devolved areas where the Scottish government has held up their hands and said "f**k it we canna manage this we'll just keep it how it is".  Then there is the actual costs of running the departments that provide the services.  For example the Social Security Scotland in their first annual report reported costs of £12.8m to provide £39.2m of benefits which is hardly efficient.  Revenue Scotland collects tax at a cost of 50% more than HMRC which again is hardly efficient.

[Mr Heliums]

Does it really matter what GERS says? Because each year, regular as the clocks turning back, we hear that Scotland as an economic basket-case. To the extent that we don’t show a deficit like the other countries. We have a black hole.

I'd love GERS to at least have a disclaimer: that it's a snapshot of Scotland’s position after 300 years in a union and so if our finances are dreadful, it could be seen as a failing of the current constitutional arrangements. I wish coverage of GERS would point out that it allocates debts to us racked up by governments we didn’t vote for, or for wars and weapons and austerity we didn’t want. Or – next year – a Brexit we voted two-to-one against.

Instead it’s presented the opposite way. if the prevailing line that GERS shows we can’t afford independence ever changed, it would only be to show that the ‘pooling and sharing’ of the UK works.

That premise should be challenged. We can't judge the economics of an independent Scotland based on the economics of the union. I’d love to see serious analytical thought go into an alternative GERS, examining what our expenditure and revenue might be if we were an independent country like Norway, Denmark or Sweden. 

I’m not saying this would be any more accurate than GERS, but publishing it around the same time might encourage some to look behind the figures of both and have a serious discussion of our country’s economics.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Mr Heliums

[Malky3]

On 27/10/2019 at 08:08, Mr Heliums said:

Does it really matter what GERS says? Because each year, regular as the clocks turning back, we hear that Scotland as an economic basket-case. To the extent that we don’t show a deficit like the other countries. We have a black hole.

I'd love GERS to at least have a disclaimer: that it's a snapshot of Scotland’s position after 300 years in a union and so if our finances are dreadful, it could be seen as a failing of the current constitutional arrangements. I wish coverage of GERS would point out that it allocates debts to us racked up by governments we didn’t vote for, or for wars and weapons and austerity we didn’t want. Or – next year – a Brexit we voted two-to-one against.

Instead it’s presented the opposite way. if the prevailing line that GERS shows we can’t afford independence ever changed, it would only be to show that the ‘pooling and sharing’ of the UK works.

That premise should be challenged. We can't judge the economics of an independent Scotland based on the economics of the union. I’d love to see serious analytical thought go into an alternative GERS, examining what our expenditure and revenue might be if we were an independent country like Norway, Denmark or Sweden. 

I’m not saying this would be any more accurate than GERS, but publishing it around the same time might encourage some to look behind the figures of both and have a serious discussion of our country’s economics.

If you replace "GERs Report" with "due diligence on ABN Amro" this post could have been written by Alex Salmond. Its like a Mother ignoring reports that her new partner is a paedophile. Or like a man ignoring warnings that his new burd boils bunnies. 

The point Nationalists simply cannot grasp is that Scotland, the country they profess to love, is not currently an economic basket case. Scotland generates as much revenue as many countries of a similar size, and we also enjoy a share the in the financial success - through the Barnett Formula - of London, the East of England and the South East. Turn off the Barnett Formula and you are looking at immediate austerity to reduce public sector spending in Scotland. 

Where you are right is that an Independent Scotland should look very different. The whole Nationalist movement has aired its  many grievances about Westminster so in setting up a new country they should be able to get rid of the bits that don't work to make the savings required. Scrapping the NHS would balance the books and leave a small surplus. All I ask is that Nationalists be honest enough to tell the country what they'd cut. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

[Baxter Parp]

No we don't know the exact minutiae of how the Scottish Government spends our money.  The Auditor General has been very clear that further financial transparency is required.
It is misleading to claim that Scotland is only given 40% back.  Unless you are claiming that Scotland does not receive any money for pensions or welfare spending when we have historically received a higher amount per capita than the UK as a whole.
According to the UK government 88% of public expenditure is identifiable to where it is spent.  See https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/759560/Country_and_Regional_Analysis_November_2018_rvsd.pdf
The 12% includes elements such as overseas aid which the Scottish government has generally agreed with and has in the past topped up from within their own budget.
Of course your 60% number also includes devolved areas where the Scottish government has held up their hands and said "f**k it we canna manage this we'll just keep it how it is".  Then there is the actual costs of running the departments that provide the services.  For example the Social Security Scotland in their first annual report reported costs of £12.8m to provide £39.2m of benefits which is hardly efficient.  Revenue Scotland collects tax at a cost of 50% more than HMRC which again is hardly efficient.

Except both those examples include exceptional start up costs and their operational efficiency won't be known for a wee while yet.