hearthammer Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 12 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said: 14 hours ago, hearthammer said: Who's there ?? (canny wait) £13bn black hole. Aye, but you/we only have Malky's word and warped calculus for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, ancientnoise said: Fun as it has been to read through, how about the original point of this thread? I reckon there'll be a GE first, maybe this year, but early next. The SNP will gain more seats and the clamour for IndyRef2 will become stronger. Both Tory and Labour will be flung into an embarrassingly low return of MPs in Scotland, and will no longer have the right to deny it. Hopefully by summer 2020 (at the latest) we'll be out. How do you like them timescales? Summer 2020 maybe an agreement to have IR2 at the earliest. 2022 for the poll at the earliest. If the vote is in 2022 (as seems most likely) then the outcome depends on 2 major factors. 1. If post-Brexit Britain is motoring as an economy then the Natters are on to plums. 2. If UK PLC is stuttering as an economy then the Natters are on to plums as no one would want to go through the whole Brexit-like debacle again to further weaken the economy. Big shame for the Glengarried-up Scotch blokes but it looks like the 'once in a generation' prediction from Fat Eck was right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, ancientnoise said: It seems that the only real certainty is that you will completely ignore what has been suggested, and will instead pop up with another predictable, sad polemic. Please don't try and patronise me. There is no fucking hope in hell of a plebiscite before 2022. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, ancientnoise said: And then, when challenged, a sad, defensive belligerence. Also predictable. You're the one who said, to quote, "Hopefully by summer 2020 (at the latest) we'll be out." This is, simply, the most stupid comment ever made by a Natter on the whole of the Politics threads. And that takes some doing. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 59 minutes ago, ancientnoise said: Hopefully by summer 2020 (at the latest) we'll be out. How do you like them timescales? Deranged. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 29 minutes ago, ancientnoise said: Still banging on? No attempt to discuss the dates I've suggested besides weird denials and new dates that only exist in your mind. No GE discussion. No fallout from the GE discussion. No attempt to speculate how any of this will affect Scots, or even the UK. No speculation about where all the Tory parties will end up. Nope. Nothing. Yet here I am, "deranged". LOLZ. Deranged and rambling. My favourite sort of Natter. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said: Please don't try and patronise me. There is no fucking hope in hell of a plebiscite before 2022. I bet you pronounce that pleebaskite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: I bet you pronounce that pleebaskite. I know how 'pleb' is pronounced... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 3 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: I know how 'pleb' is pronounced... It's nice to see the sad auld alkie taking the SeetheCo injury time defeat particularly well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I can see it being later, SNP giving Labour most of a parliamentary term to get what they want done for England before getting a referendum. So assuming an SNP-LibDem-Labour government forms, maybe about 4 years after that starts. I'd say something like 2023.Everything will have settled down post-Brexit by then and the sensible majority will send the swivel-eyed separatists away to think again, as anyone with an iota of sense won’t want to go through another messy, drawn out separation.This journey is taking quite some time, but enjoy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: But if one strategy is to go for this, I don't see why Labour would agree to an indyref early as it instantly makes them a minority if it's a yes. That is so last century, Labour have lost Scotland for the foreseeable future, they have barely any seats up here to rely on anymore. If the price for SNP support to put them in Government is allowing indyref 2 they'll allow it. They'd be hoping it would lose of course, but they'll be thinking that offering devomax would swing it for them. Edited October 5, 2019 by welshbairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 That is so last century, Labour have lost Scotland for the foreseeable future, they have barely any seats up here to rely on anymore. If the price for SNP support to put them in Government is allowing indyref 2 they'll allow it.Plus, in an indepenent Scotland, surely Labour can regain some credibility by forming a truly Scottish Labour Party rather than a pathetic branch office? Or would the Labour Party as a whole not give a f**k about that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Indy Scotland gives all sides a chance at putting their ideas forward, for the better of Scotland. Many unionists fail to realize this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Indy Scotland gives all sides a chance at putting their ideas forward, for the better of Scotland. Many unionists fail to realize this. Even the Tories will probably be able to gain traction post Indy. In fact, I would bet on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Even the Tories will probably be able to gain traction post Indy. In fact, I would bet on it. If Scotland decided to go that way post Indy, fine. As long as accountability is held closer to home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Stellaboz said: 6 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Even the Tories will probably be able to gain traction post Indy. In fact, I would bet on it. If Scotland decided to go that way post Indy, fine. As long as accountability is held closer to home. Tories will still be fucking scum, but yes, you can argue the point that it would be nice to have both sides of the political spectrum available to act for Scotland. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) I wonder if, in an independent Scotland, the Tories would make rejoining the UK their raison d'etre, or if they'd get on with the day job of trying to cut taxes and syphon off public funds for the wealthiest in society. Edit: also, I'll never understand why Labour are still so militantly anti-Independence. Obviously they saw the SNP as a huge electoral threat, so they decided to combat that by going the other way. Didn't work so well. Then they became so toxic in Scotland that they lost out massively to the Tories - the fucking Tories - with the Unionist vote. Yet they still remain staunchly Unionist despite polls seemingly showing that their membership is split on the issue. Is it just bitterness towards the hated SNP that keeps them on this line? A more laissez-faire attitude towards the issue surely wouldn't hurt them more than they've been hurt already, and might bring a few folk back from voting SNP, and certainly Tory voters who've realised that their new party doesn't have their best interests at heart. Edited October 5, 2019 by BigFatTabbyDave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenanover Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mastermind said: Everything will have settled down post-Brexit by then and the sensible majority will send the swivel-eyed separatists away to think again, as anyone with an iota of sense won’t want to go through another messy, drawn out separation. This journey is taking quite some time, but enjoy. I'm not enjoying this at all. I want brexit over which at last we have someone getting on with and then Sturgeon told she is not getting another referendum. Then we can all move on and concentrate on things that matter instead of bloody referendums. I am sick of hearing about brexit and independence. Edited October 5, 2019 by Glenanover 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I genuinely think another Tory administration could spell the end of a referendum for another political generation.No consent in this term with 'sorting out Brexit' and then a chance they might head into 2025 with the same talk and, at the very most, they'd be demanding mandate from Holyrood which would mean 2007, 2011, 2016, 2021 and 2025 had all consecutively returned pro indy majorities - that's a lot of pressure and there's always a chance that it doesn't turn out well or the unionists find a new way to consolidate their vote.There's way too many uncertainties to predict with the country falling to shit right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 You're living in a fantasy world if you think the country will just "move on" no matter how this is resolved. Brexit is going to dominate uk politics for the next decade at least. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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