When will indyref2 happen?

[strichener]

On 18/08/2019 at 19:30, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

I thought we'd already cleared this up ? The trams were a City of Edinburgh Council vanity project.

- The council wanted a tram network.

- The council tried to introduce a congestion charge to pay for the network.

- When the residents of Edinburgh rejected the congestion charge proposal, the council asked the government for funding.

- The government, via grants from Transport Scotland agreed to provide funding for the project.

- The council prepared a business case for approval by the Transport minister.

0092204_fc 21.12.06 10.00am item 08.4 (part 1).pdf 2.82 MB · 0 downloads

It's a long and boring document tbh, but some interesting paragraphs...

Key Players 
3.10 There are four key players responsible for the delivery of an integrated transport 
system for Edinburgh:- The Council; Transport Scotland; Transport Edinburgh 
Ltd (TEL); and tie Ltd. Transport Scotland is the agency responsible for the 
delivery of the Scottish Executive’s transport investment programme and is the principal funder of Edinburgh’s tram project. The Council is the promoter of the 
Tram project and has been responsible for its inception through the Local 
Transport Strategy, and the promotion of Parliamentary Bills enabling its 
construction. Following Royal Assent the Council is now the “authorised 
undertaker’’ for Edinburgh Tram Lines 1 and 2 under their respective Acts. If the 
Council enters into any agreeements in its capacity as authorised undertaker 
the Council must notify Scottish Ministers accordingly. Relevant agreements in 
this regard at the present time include agreements with TEL (Operating 
Agreement and on maintenance demarcation which is in preparation) and with 
the District Valuer in connection with land acquisition. The Council is the sole or 
major shareholder in three limited companies all of whom play a vital role in 
Tram namely TEL, Lothian Buses and tie.

1. EXECUTIVE SUMMARY 
Background 
1.1 Substantial road traffic growth across the Edinburgh area combined with forecast 
population and employment increases will lead to significant growth in road 
congestion and demand for transport solutions. To support the local economy, City of 
Edinburgh Council (CEC) has identified trams as the preferred way to provide the 
backbone for a comprehensive, higher quality public transport network to support the 
local economy and to help to create sustainable development. The Edinburgh Tram 
Network (“the tram”) has been central to transport policy and planning and the wider 
economic development aspirations of the City for more than six years. The scheme 
has had in-principle funding support from the Scottish Executive (now represented by 
Transport Scotland) since 2003.

Substitute CEC for tfl, trams for Crossrail, TEL for Cross London Rail Links Ltd and Edinburgh Tram Lines 1 and 2 act for Crossrail 2008 Act. and the two projects are near identical in structure.  If someone quotes Crossrail as a UK Government vanity project then the Trams cannot escape the same label for the Scottish Government.

Quote

- The council prepared a business case for approval by the Transport minister.

I am surprised that @lichtgilpheadhasn't been on berating you for not putting the name and party in your post.  

Speaking of transport ministers and the trams.

 

[Baxter Parp]

The City of London extracts wealth from the rest of the UK's regions, inquiry submission finds

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/14605/city-london-extracts-wealth-rest-uks-regions-inquiry-submission-finds

But better together, right?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

25 minutes ago, Deanburn Dave said:

what does OBFA stand for ? 

Its an acronym for The Offensive Behaviour at Football (and Threatening Communications) Act.

Unfortunately, Malky cut and paste some misleading information on this. He's been challenged on this numerous times, but instead either ignores or deflects.

Which is strange, as he's quite quick to demand answers from other people or indeed, call them liars.

 

[Gaz FFC]

4 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

The City of London extracts wealth from the rest of the UK's regions, inquiry submission finds

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/14605/city-london-extracts-wealth-rest-uks-regions-inquiry-submission-finds

But better together, right?

To be fair for England and London it's been fucking great.

It's jolly nice that 55% of Scots want to look after them so much.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

5 minutes ago, strichener said:

Substitute CEC for tfl, trams for Crossrail, TEL for Cross London Rail Links Ltd and Edinburgh Tram Lines 1 and 2 act for Crossrail 2008 Act. and the two projects are near identical in structure.  If someone quotes Crossrail as a UK Government vanity project then the Trams cannot escape the same label for the Scottish Government.

I am surprised that @lichtgilpheadhasn't been on berating you for not putting the name and party in your post.  

Speaking of transport ministers and the trams.

 

Is this you admitting that the Edinburgh trams were not in fact a government vanity project, but an Edinburgh council one ?

Or are you just being contrarian for the sake of it ?

[Deanburn Dave]

32 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Its an acronym for The Offensive Behaviour at Football (and Threatening Communications) Act.

Unfortunately, Malky cut and paste some misleading information on this. He's been challenged on this numerous times, but instead either ignores or deflects.

Which is strange, as he's quite quick to demand answers from other people or indeed, call them liars.

 

Offensive Behaviour at Football !!  ……….my only excuse for not knowing that is that it simply doesn't happen in the East of Scotland League.

[Brother Blades]

.....whilst Brother Blades tries to machine gun them all down. After all in his mind it doesn't matter how much it fucks up Scotland so long as it hurts the English more

You are hilarious.

[Blootoon87]

The UK Government has stated it does not want a hard border with the ROI. The ROI Government has stated it does not want a hard border with the UK. Both sides are adamant they want to stick to the terms of the "Good Friday Agreement". The only party that appears to be insisting on a hard border is the EU. 

So how exactly are we going to "take back control of our borders" if we don't want a border? What exactly is the fucking point of Brexit?

[Bairnardo]

The UK Government has stated it does not want a hard border with the ROI. The ROI Government has stated it does not want a hard border with the UK. Both sides are adamant they want to stick to the terms of the "Good Friday Agreement". The only party that appears to be insisting on a hard border is the EU. 

LOL at this attempt to separate ROI from the EU for the sake of your argument.

[lichtgilphead]

8 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said:

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

The UK Government has stated it does not want a hard border with the ROI. The ROI Government has stated it does not want a hard border with the UK. Both sides are adamant they want to stick to the terms of the "Good Friday Agreement". The only party that appears to be insisting on a hard border is the EU. 

So how exactly are we going to "take back control of our borders" if we don't want a border? What exactly is the fucking point of Brexit?

It's simple. The UK border will stop foreigners (especially dark-skinned foreigners) from getting in, but will not hinder imports or exports of goods in any way whatsoever.

How? By use of technology, unicorns & fairy-dust.

It's obvious.

[Malky3]

30 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

2 hours ago, Malky3 said:

The UK Government has stated it does not want a hard border with the ROI. The ROI Government has stated it does not want a hard border with the UK. Both sides are adamant they want to stick to the terms of the "Good Friday Agreement". The only party that appears to be insisting on a hard border is the EU. 

LOL at this attempt to separate ROI from the EU for the sake of your argument.

Hardly. It's absolutely relevant. The ROI - a member of the EU - borders the UK. it doesn't want a hard border, neither does the UK but because of the lack of a Brexit agreement the EU is insisting on a hard border. 

If Scotland was ever stupid enough to vote for independence and then joined the EU (as per your example) it would put itself in exactly the same position as the ROI - one that the Irish PM calls a National Emergency. 

[Malky3]

27 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

It's simple. The UK border will stop foreigners (especially dark-skinned foreigners) from getting in, but will not hinder imports or exports of goods in any way whatsoever.

How? By use of technology, unicorns & fairy-dust.

It's obvious.

That's exactly the argument that was being put forward by Scottish Nationalists on here just a page or two ago. They argued we should forget the reality of what is happening right now with Brexit and simply assume that the EU will be fine with an open Scotland / England border. Oh and there's no need to worry about smuggling or migrants illegally crossing the border cause the Tweed is a bit cold, the Solway Firth is a bit dangerous, and the Keilder Forest is a bit dark and scary. 

The EU will be happy with that I'm sure! 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Malky3

[lichtgilphead]

34 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

It's simple. The UK border will stop foreigners (especially dark-skinned foreigners) from getting in, but will not hinder imports or exports of goods in any way whatsoever.

How? By use of technology, unicorns & fairy-dust.

It's obvious.

The troll has quoted my post above ^^. He seems to think I was being serious.

It must have been the reference to unicorns & fairy dust. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Trying to picture thousands of Cumbrian and Northumbrian refugees braving the icy cold depths of the Tweed to escape Brexit England and reach the promised land.

Now thinking about migrants in rubber dinghys braving the North Sea and sailing the length of England before disembarking at Eyemouth and making their way back across the border to England.

[Bairnardo]

3 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Now thinking about migrants in rubber dinghys braving the North Sea and sailing the length of England before disembarking at Eyemouth and making their way back across the border to England.

You laugh but El Chapo is probably drawing up plans for a cocaine highway into Scotland through one of these border straddling forests. #bettertogether

[D Angelo Barksdale]

18 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

You laugh but El Chapo is probably drawing up plans for a cocaine highway into Scotland through one of these border straddling forests. #bettertogether

Me and the lads getting ready to smuggle bottles of Buckfast and Irn Bru across the border.

[BawWatchin]

4 hours ago, Malky3 said:

True - Westminster knocked back the Withdrawal Agreement, which is where we came into this part of the conversation. One of the other forum members said that Sturgeon and the SNP had made a poor strategic mistake in rejecting the Withdrawal Agreement. A comment i'd agree very strongly with.

I disagree. The continued backstop issue over Ireland stimulates it's push towards reunification and the ultimate break up of the United Kingdom. Strategically sound from our First Minister tbh.

[BawWatchin]

1 hour ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Me and the lads getting ready to smuggle bottles of Buckfast and Irn Bru across the border.

Could you smuggle some of the old Irn Bru into Scotland while you're at it? The newer stuff is shite. Ta.

[AUFC90]

The UK Government has stated it does not want a hard border with the ROI. The ROI Government has stated it does not want a hard border with the UK. Both sides are adamant they want to stick to the terms of the "Good Friday Agreement". The only party that appears to be insisting on a hard border is the EU. 

The UK government insisted from the outset it didn't want freedom of movement. It could have pursued a soft Brexit but wanted to appease a minority of racists.

 

Basically they thought they could keep the good bits and lose the bad bits and were roundly told to get to f**k.

 

If a no deal happens and a hard border is the result it will be down to racist c***s in England and morons such as yourself who makes excuses for them.

 

[AUFC90]

Now thinking about migrants in rubber dinghys braving the North Sea and sailing the length of England before disembarking at Eyemouth and making their way back across the border to England.

Don't understand why poor Africans don't sail to a point in the thousands of miles of unguarded Norwegian coastline then they can simply walk all the way, through forests and stuff, to a nice country like Germany.

Baffles me so it does.