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When will indyref2 happen?


Colkitto

Indyref2  

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22 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Malky - Would you agree that "General government gross debt was £1,821.3 billion at the end of the financial year ending March 2019, equivalent to 85.2% of GDP" Simple question - Yes or No.

If Yes, why do you believe that it is pertinent just to quote a figure for the last 365 days worth of debt run up by the UK? Surely the overall debt is the more relevant figure.

Selective quotations of this type don't help your case.

Yep I didn't mention the overall debt, but by the same token I didn't mention that last week my missus also overspent the food budget by £10. The reason for failing to mention both was that it bears no relevance at all to the point Perthshire was making. I was responding to his comments on the UK deficit highlighting he was incorrect. 

The USA debt to GDP ratio is 105.4%. We've got a long way to go before we need to worry about the size of our overall debt - part of which, btw, belongs to Scotland! 

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4 minutes ago, Antlion said:

An SNP-obsessed history of Brexit does not undermine the fact that supporting Scotland’s regional status within the UK-state means supporting Brexit. Until Article 50 is revoked, that remains the case. Your penchant for regionalism means a costly, damaging, and expensive divorce brought about by the UK electorate. Own it. 

What rot! 

I presume, although you haven't actually declared your position, that you like me voted to remain. 

your penchant for nationalism would mean not one, but two costly and highly damaging divorces - one after the other. Prolonging a period of economic uncertainty and instability that was triggered in the first place by the SNP and the first Independence Referendum! Own it! 

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9 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

What rot! 

I presume, although you haven't actually declared your position, that you like me voted to remain. 

your penchant for nationalism would mean not one, but two costly and highly damaging divorces - one after the other. Prolonging a period of economic uncertainty and instability that was triggered in the first place by the SNP and the first Independence Referendum! Own it! 

Whereas your nationalism has already cost Scotland millions. The embarrassment is that, despite your loyalism, Brexit voters in England and Wales not only blew your old 2014 Better Together arguments out of the water (leaving you in the humiliating position of arguing that a costly, damaging, and expensive divorce we tried to prevent is acceptable but a costly, damaging, and expensive divorce we might dare vote for isn’t), but have indicated via polling that they would see Scotland independent rather than lose Brexit. Doesn’t that make you feel just a tiny bit that you’re viewed with disdain if not contempt by the people you want to remain in union with?

Edited by Antlion
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32 minutes ago, This time Perthshirebell said:

So utterly all over the place.   You know Scotland could spend like Greece and have the higher surplus in the world?   

You have GERS from last year and nothing else.   Please troll better.  

You are indeed all over the place. Imagine producing figures that were more than 400% out. I was cringing for you. 

Go on then, tell me what cuts you'd make that would make Scotland spend like Greece? 

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3 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Whereas your nationalism has already cost Scotland millions. The embarrassment is that, despite your loyalism, Brexit voters in England and Wales not only blew your old 2014 Better Together arguments out of the water (leaving you in the humiliating position of arguing that a costly, damaging, and expensive divorce we tried to prevent is acceptable but a costly, damaging, and expensive divorce isn’t), but have indicated via polling that they would see Scotland independent rather than lose Brexit. Doesn’t that make you feel just a tiny bit that you’re viewed with disdain if not contempt by the people you want to remain in union with?

Well again that's absurd and I've covered it before. That failing Scottish education system really hasn't served you well has it? 

Had we voted for Independence in 2014 and followed the SNP's White Paper to the letter the country would have been thrown into some real austerity when the oil prices crashed through the floor. Tell me what public service would you have given up first? The Fire Brigade? The Police? Maybe you'd have just scrapped the NHS. It's items of that scale that the SNP would have had to shed to get their budget to balance - as they would have done under Sterlingisation. 

To that end the SNP blew your argument for a wealthier Scotland after Independence right out of the water and proved without any doubt whatsoever that we were indeed Better Together. Only a complete Nationalist lemming would want to inflict that scale of poverty and suffering on their fellow Scot because of their ideology. 

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2 minutes ago, This time Perthshirebell said:

Doesn't matter how many times you deflect the matter of hand is the UK had over £100 billion of a deficit, a position where they couldn't continue in the EU.   Your obsession with Scotland (within the UK) is singularly embarrassing.   Your lack of clout is however a shot in the arm for  every Yes voter.   

No we didn't. As I've shown you the ONS stated quite clearly we have a deficit of £25.5Bn to the last fiscal year. If we couldn't continue in the EU why did they not just kick us out? Why are they negotiating Brexit with us and why are they publicly calling for us to stay? 

 

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5 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Yep I didn't mention the overall debt, but by the same token I didn't mention that last week my missus also overspent the food budget by £10. The reason for failing to mention both was that it bears no relevance at all to the point Perthshire was making. I was responding to his comments on the UK deficit highlighting he was incorrect. 

The USA debt to GDP ratio is 105.4%. We've got a long way to go before we need to worry about the size of our overall debt - part of which, btw, belongs to Scotland! 

I'll quote the troll just this once - primarily to expose his economic illiteracy.

Spending an extra £10 on the weekly shop has no relevance whatsoever to the economic position of an entire country. Personally, I spent around £1500 more than I earned last month, but we enjoyed one holiday during the time, and paid for flights & accommodation for the next one. Am I bankrupt yet?

Both Perthshire Bell & myself implied that the UK total debt was unsustainable. Whatabootery relating to the USA and meaningless nonsensense relating to household expenditure mean f*ck all.

At this time, the UK is accumulating additional unsubstainable debt each and every month with no prospect of paying it off. 

But everything is fine. Malky says so. Sunlit uplands of Brexit await the UK. Just you wait and see.

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2 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Well again that's absurd and I've covered it before. That failing Scottish education system really hasn't served you well has it? 

Had we voted for Independence in 2014 and followed the SNP's White Paper to the letter the country would have been thrown into some real austerity when the oil prices crashed through the floor. Tell me what public service would you have given up first? The Fire Brigade? The Police? Maybe you'd have just scrapped the NHS. It's items of that scale that the SNP would have had to shed to get their budget to balance - as they would have done under Sterlingisation. 

To that end the SNP blew your argument for a wealthier Scotland after Independence right out of the water and proved without any doubt whatsoever that we were indeed Better Together. Only a complete Nationalist lemming would want to inflict that scale of poverty and suffering on their fellow Scot because of their ideology. 

Ah, fighting the battle of 2014 again, eh? And now on steroids: I don’t think even former socialist Lord Darling claimed that statehood would mean Scotland not having a fire service. Sorry, but Brexit has robbed you of those arguments. You’re now stuck arguing that the UK electorate has made a dreadful choice  and is inflicting severe damage and expense on us and, to boot, many of those who chose to inflict it no longer care about supporting your arguments.

You do seem to resort to the “Nationalist lemming” and “poor Scottish education” spittle-flecked rants whenever it’s gently pointed out to you what a joke you’ve become to the people you’ve done everything possible to protest your loyalism to. Ouch. It’s like watching a whipped dog turn its snarling on strangers rather than the owners it still loves. 

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42 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

I'll quote the troll just this once - primarily to expose his economic illiteracy.

Spending an extra £10 on the weekly shop has no relevance whatsoever to the economic position of an entire country. Personally, I spent around £1500 more than I earned last month, but we enjoyed one holiday during the time, and paid for flights & accommodation for the next one. Am I bankrupt yet?

Both Perthshire Bell & myself implied that the UK total debt was unsustainable. Whatabootery relating to the USA and meaningless nonsensense relating to household expenditure mean f*ck all.

At this time, the UK is accumulating additional unsubstainable debt each and every month with no prospect of paying it off. 

But everything is fine. Malky says so. Sunlit uplands of Brexit await the UK. Just you wait and see.

And I'm economically illiterate? 

Let me try to keep this simple. Lets say the total value of my assets is £100,000 and against this I have borrowed £5,000 does that make me bankrupt? Does that make my debt unsustainable? 

You Nationalists want the argument all ways. In one breath you want to tell us how rich Scotland is with it's vast oil reserves in the North Sea, and in the next breath you tell us the UK of which Scotland - and the North Sea - is a part of is bankrupt over a national debt of £1,800Bn. To prove a point - Business For Scotland recently claimed there were around 15Bn barrels of oil left in the North Sea. They estimated the value of that at £1,500Bn. The UK owns other territories where there are oil reserves too. For example in the Falklands we own the South and East Falklands Basin where there is an estimated 5Bn barrels of extractable oil which, using Business For Scotlands figures, must be worth another £500Bn. 

Indeed the Office of National Statistics estimates the total value of UK assets to the end of 2017 to be £10.2 trillion - around £155,000 per person living in the UK. More than enough to cover our national debt many times over. The UK is no more bankrupt or unsustainable than you are! 

Had it not been for Brexit the UK economy would have been in surplus this year for the first time since Margaret Thatcher was in power. Even with Brexit and with Boris Johnston promising to spend large sums of money, it's highly likely that the deficit will be cut again during the current fiscal year, and that we'll be into surplus by the end of next year. That is the strength of the UK when it's together. 

Edited by Malky3
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41 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Ah, fighting the battle of 2014 again, eh? And now on steroids: I don’t think even former socialist Lord Darling claimed that statehood would mean Scotland not having a fire service. Sorry, but Brexit has robbed you of those arguments. You’re now stuck arguing that the UK electorate has made a dreadful choice  and is inflicting severe damage and expense on us and, to boot, many of those who chose to inflict it no longer care about supporting your arguments.

You do seem to resort to the “Nationalist lemming” and “poor Scottish education” spittle-flecked rants whenever it’s gently pointed out to you what a joke you’ve become to the people you’ve done everything possible to protest your loyalism to. Ouch. It’s like watching a whipped dog turn its snarling on strangers rather than the owners it still loves. 

Unfortunately for you the white paper provides the evidence of the SNP's costings and spending plans for Independence and the oil revenue figures that were forecast by the SNP have been proven to have been vastly over inflated. This is not a guess. History proves the fact that had we voted for independence in 2014 Scotland would have been in the financial shite house and given that the SNP policy at the time on currency was sterlingisation the whole countries fiscal viability would have rested on there being no budget deficit. Using the GERS figures that would have meant around £14Bn per annum worth of austerity cuts. As I've repeatedly asked you and others, where would you have found those savings? 

Perhaps next time round - if there ever is an Indy Ref 2 - the SNP might be a bit more honest with the electorate given the stick it likes to beat the Brexit campaign with. Maybe next time round they'll make it clear that we'll all be much worse off financially, but at least we'll have the independence to be ruled by Brussels, if they'll have us back! 

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40 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Unfortunately for you the white paper provides the evidence of the SNP's costings and spending plans for Independence and the oil revenue figures that were forecast by the SNP have been proven to have been vastly over inflated. This is not a guess. History proves the fact that had we voted for independence in 2014 Scotland would have been in the financial shite house and given that the SNP policy at the time on currency was sterlingisation the whole countries fiscal viability would have rested on there being no budget deficit. Using the GERS figures that would have meant around £14Bn per annum worth of austerity cuts. As I've repeatedly asked you and others, where would you have found those savings? 

Perhaps next time round - if there ever is an Indy Ref 2 - the SNP might be a bit more honest with the electorate given the stick it likes to beat the Brexit campaign with. Maybe next time round they'll make it clear that we'll all be much worse off financially, but at least we'll have the independence to be ruled by Brussels, if they'll have us back! 

Wind...waffle....Ultimately....pish.

Unionists and their GERS.🤣 

Economic buffoonery.

Perhaps a bit of reading is required on GERS methodology. GERS itself is a good start.

Edited by git-intae-thum
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27 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

Wind...waffle....Ultimately....pish.

Unionists and their GERS.🤣 

Economic buffoonery.

Perhaps a bit of reading is required on GERS methodology. GERS itself is a good start.

Go on then. Tell me how you would make the books balance?

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1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:
9 hours ago, Malky3 said:
Ok, but can you tell me how another divorce would help Scotlands underclass? Would you stop donating to foodbanks? 

How does a continuation of the conditions that created the underclass help the underclass?

Very good, answering a question with a question. So here goes. If you have identified the conditions that created the underclass what were they? When did these conditions start? And what would be so radically different with an Independent Scotland that it will eradicate the underclass and a need for food banks / parcels / donations? They wouldn't just "disappear" in the night would they?

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7 hours ago, Malky3 said:

You are absolutely right. Wee Malky fae Glasgow knows very little about trade deals. Please impart your wisdom on me whilst proving your relevant experience is in the negotiation of trade deals. 

Hmm, play the man and not the ball, a familiar if tiresome approach.  For the record, my experience isn't in trade deals but I'm guessing I've read a bit more about them than yourself and as such I'm not going to let someone airily conjure them as you did.  Leave that to Brexit politicians, they command more air time. 

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7 hours ago, Malky3 said:

 

Perhaps next time round - if there ever is an Indy Ref 2 - the SNP might be a bit more honest with the electorate given the stick it likes to beat the Brexit campaign with. Maybe next time round they'll make it clear that we'll all be much worse off financially, but at least we'll have the independence to be ruled by Brussels, if they'll have us back! 

Sounds good - a remarriage to undo the costly, expensive, and damaging divorce and subsequent financial ruin your regionalism is currently causing. It also should be a sop to loyalists like yourself to know that there’s government from somewhere else, even if it won’t be the direct rule from Mother England you’ve come to love.

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3 hours ago, Malky3 said:

You do realise that 55% of Scots voted No don't you? There's more than one of us. 😎

Thankfully the hardcore, head-banging,  “UK at any cost” BritNat-types do not constitute the majority of No voters. You’re probably as much of an embarrassment to them as you are to normal folk in England, who look on you the same way they look on the crackpots in the DUP.

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Aye absolutely, but they still need a deal. As I said I suspect the first trade deals will be with the USA, and some of the Commonwealth countries like Australia, Canada and New Zealand, and I would imagine that a deal with the EU wouldn't be that far behind either. What would be more worrying to me would be to have a Scottish Government pushing Scotland towards another expensive, costly and damaging divorce just as things would be getting better. That would be catastrophic for Scotland. 

The same USA who’s congressional leaders have vowed to veto any trade deal in the event of a break down in the good friday deal? That USA? Thats some real in depth analysis, I feel better now lads, Malky’s got it all sorted.
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