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When will indyref2 happen?


Colkitto

Indyref2  

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If a "significant minory" go off and start another party, it would be disastrous for the SNP and any hope of another independence referendum with the FPTP system in place.

Nah they can start a wee jacobite party, get rid of the numpties and possibly even attract more moderate support if they dont pander to these trumpets.
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People are talking as if this is a new thing. There’s always been roasters in the SNP- there’s roasters in every party. 

Discipline in the SNP is renowned because people feel united behind a singular aim. By and large that will always be the case until Independence is achieved. 

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1 hour ago, MixuFixit said:

If they did do a RISE, but for shouty SaorAlba Da's it'd be utterly annihilated to minimal effect on the SNP.

Paul Hutcheon was widely derided for recently saying the SNP are recipients of protest votes, exposing the stalled worldview of the Scottish chattering class but in truth a lot of the cybernatty types do still view the SNP as an insurgency when they are firmly mainstream.

Yup. They aren't going to give up the Twitter beefs because of anything Sturgeon says or does. Where would they feasibly go and who would front this new movement? They're even more irrelevant than the group that formed the CUKs.

 

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Stuart Campbell isn't the problem with the 'Yes movement'.    It's the "dream will never die" merchants with their heavily decorated cars that abuse anyone that doesn't vote SNP.     

I think the Wings website is excellent, anything that debunks and fucks over the Daily Mail/Express is a good thing.     

The biggest problem in the SNP at the minute is Nicola's obsession with the EU.    

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10 minutes ago, Billy Rubin said:

Stuart Campbell isn't the problem with the 'Yes movement'.    It's the "dream will never die" merchants with their heavily decorated cars that abuse anyone that doesn't vote SNP.     

I think the Wings website is excellent, anything that debunks and fucks over the Daily Mail/Express is a good thing.     

The biggest problem in the SNP at the minute is Nicola's obsession with the EU.    

Slight caveat that every single council area in Scotland voted remain, and support for remain in Scotland currently running at 72%.  She's doing her job.

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Just now, Kuro said:

Slight caveat that every single council area in Scotland voted remain, and support for remain in Scotland currently running at 72%.  She's doing her job.

Nope she's leader of the Independence for Scotland party not the "What Scotland's thinks party" because she'd me campaigning to remain the the UK is she consistently followed your logic.   

The UK governments actions has won us votes to Yes.   That's great!   Nicola and her Brexit strategy has lost just as many to No.     

She's a very talented woman, but she's got this 100% wrong.

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2 minutes ago, Billy Rubin said:

Nope she's leader of the Independence for Scotland party not the "What Scotland's thinks party" because she'd me campaigning to remain the the UK is she consistently followed your logic.   

The UK governments actions has won us votes to Yes.   That's great!   Nicola and her Brexit strategy has lost just as many to No.     

She's a very talented woman, but she's got this 100% wrong.

She was elected on a mandate to oppose brexit.  Anyway I think you're a bit mental so good evening.

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1 minute ago, MixuFixit said:

If your long term aim is Scotland in the EU independent of the UK, when the EU was not particularly helpful last time you tried, you need to go out of your way to say how much you like the EU whilst privately wishing for a disastrous brexit. She's doing fine.

It's not believable, IMO and she's giving far too much air time talking about Brexit.    I'm not convinced the SNP vote wouldn't have been higher if she'd hit in the bunker for the last 18 months.  

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1 hour ago, MixuFixit said:

If your long term aim is Scotland in the EU independent of the UK, when the EU was not particularly helpful last time you tried, you need to go out of your way to say how much you like the EU whilst privately wishing for a disastrous brexit. She's doing fine.

Just to pick up on one thing here. The SNP really aren’t hoping for a disastrous Brexit, trust me.

I know that it’s the view of many, and it was mine for a period as well, that the best chance for independence is an apocalyptic Brexit, but that’s really not the outcome the SNP top brass are looking for.

For better or for worse they truly are trying everything in their power to ensure the rUK has the closest possible relationship with the EU. They believe this for two reasons, 1. They think it is the best outcome in a bad situation for everyone involved, and, 2. They feel that it presents the best case for Indy ie. winning over soft No’s. 

Edited by Londonwell
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13 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

Just to pick up on one thing here. The SNP really aren’t hoping for a disastrous Brexit, trust me.

I know that it’s the view of many, and it was mine for a period as well, that the best chance for independence is an apocalyptic Brexit, but that’s really not the outcome the SNP top brass are looking for.

For better or for worse they truly are trying everything in their power to ensure the rUK has the closest possible relationship with the EU. They believe this for two reasons, 1. They think it is the best outcome in a bad situation for everyone involved, and, 2. They feel that it presents the best case for Indy ie. winning over soft No’s. 

 

How do you know that? What changed your mind? Just out of interest.

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3 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 

How do you know that? What changed your mind? Just out of interest.

I know because I work for the SNP and have relatives ‘involved’ in the party also.

I changed my mind for various reasons but the two main ones were: Firstly the practical side of it is if rUK have a hard Brexit the border issue, amongst other things, become real live issues in any Indy debate. Soft no’s won’t have it. 

Another reason is because I truly believe that a no deal would be disastrous for the the entire UK and actually when I think about I don’t want anyone to have to go through that. Regardless of my views on the best future for Scotland. 

I’m keeping it short cause it’s four in the morning and I’ve been in the pub. If I wake up and it doesn’t make sense I’ll try and go into more detail ha.  

Edited by Londonwell
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7 hours ago, Londonwell said:

I know because I work for the SNP and have relatives ‘involved’ in the party also.

I changed my mind for various reasons but the two main ones were: Firstly the practical side of it is if rUK have a hard Brexit the border issue, amongst other things, become real live issues in any Indy debate. Soft no’s won’t have it. 

Another reason is because I truly believe that a no deal would be disastrous for the the entire UK and actually when I think about I don’t want anyone to have to go through that. Regardless of my views on the best future for Scotland. 

I’m keeping it short cause it’s four in the morning and I’ve been in the pub. If I wake up and it doesn’t make sense I’ll try and go into more detail ha.  

 

Appreciate the response, mate. 

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5 hours ago, MixuFixit said:


Presumably the SNP has a plan for the concerted "See? It's not that bad" campaign that will be the inevitable focus of unionists after a soft Brexit?

Well see this was the reason that I was previously of the opinion that Hard Brexit=Good for independence, and who knows that may still be the case, there’s certainly plenty in the SNP who are of that opinion.

I’d be lying if I said I knew what the plans were other than trying to be a beacon of reasonableness in a sea chock full of crazy. Maybe we’ll know more next week with whatever statement the FM makes. 

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I'm very much in the like what wings does as a website but think Mr Campbell is a bit of a zoomer. I avoid like the plague the political discussions that go on twitter. Its just not worth the time. 

Looking forward to seeing what the First Minister comes out with on Tuesday, be interesting to see how it's played out. 

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17 hours ago, Londonwell said:

Just to pick up on one thing here. The SNP really aren’t hoping for a disastrous Brexit, trust me.

I know that it’s the view of many, and it was mine for a period as well, that the best chance for independence is an apocalyptic Brexit, but that’s really not the outcome the SNP top brass are looking for.

For better or for worse they truly are trying everything in their power to ensure the rUK has the closest possible relationship with the EU. They believe this for two reasons, 1. They think it is the best outcome in a bad situation for everyone involved, and, 2. They feel that it presents the best case for Indy ie. winning over soft No’s. 

Agree with this. It would be far easier to make the argument for pulling out of the Union and taking our place in Europe as an independent nation if the rUK is closely aligned to the single market or still a member. The chaos of a hard brexit and the border problems would put people off anymore constitutional havoc, at least until things had settled down, so at least a decade. You can't get around the fact that more of our trade is with rUK than the EU.

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2 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

I don't think the SNP can win that kind of campaign.

It's either that or use our seats in Westminster to force a steady progress of devolution until we're independent in all but name, imo. 

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