When will indyref2 happen?

[sjc]

10 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Yes, we're all well aware of this issue. I brought this up with a few yoon MPs a while back who were giving the "4x larger market" shite. When I asked them what those figures would look like if all Scottish exports left Scottish ports instead of English ports, they couldn't give any proper response.

It's still a significant problem that needs addressed for an independent Scotland, as we discussed the other day.

[Detournement]

29 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

I agree. So they will surely favour full market access with the EU over the UK.

No corporation or capital is struggling for access to the EU market.

The EU is full of stuff made in the USA, China, India and elsewhere. Freedom of capital means freedom for global capital.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

 

An independent Scotland that's pro-business and in the EU will get favoured over a Corbyn UK government even if McDonnell's economic plans seem eminently reasonable. I don't think that's a controversial take. 

But as I said yesterday there will never be an indyref with Labour in power let alone a socialist Labour party.

[BawWatchin]

8 minutes ago, Detournement said:

No corporation or capital is struggling for access to the EU market.

The EU is full of stuff made in the USA, China, India and elsewhere. Freedom of capital means freedom for global capital.

Not currently they're not. But with the way things are heading, it may well come down to EU market access vs UK market access and considering the UK will be desperate for market access with whoever they can get it with, Scotland will be able to have market access with both. With UK market access being dictated on our own terms.

7 minutes ago, Detournement said:

But as I said yesterday there will never be an indyref with Labour in power let alone a socialist Labour party.

A "socialist" Labour party that is completely bombing in Scotland? They're less popular than the tories, that's a fact.

[Detournement]

Aye it's a shame that Scotland has went mad for nationalism.

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Aye it's a shame that England has went mad for nationalism.

FTFY

[BawWatchin]

6 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Aye it's a shame that Scotland has went mad for nationalism.

 

Yep, us wicked European nationalists in Scotland. It's the brand of British nationalism we should all be backing instead. (Just like your "socialist" party leader)

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

But as I said yesterday there will never be an indyref with Labour in power let alone a socialist Labour party.

What you said yesterday was bollocks. What you say today is bollocks. What you'll say tomorrow will be bollocks.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

According to ScotGov figures, trade between Scotland and: rUK 77% EU 15% RoW 8%

Hence my post the other day questioning Scotland's logistical capacity to deal with exports.

 

 

 

I didn't respond to this at the time as I didn't have the information available. A few facts about the current state of Scottish ports: 

 

 

* Latest figures show that ports in Scotland handle 67 million tonnes of cargo, 14% of the UK total.* Each year Scottish ports handle over 32 million tons of oil and gas products, 10.5 million passengers and 3 million vehicles.

* It is estimated that the UK oil and gas industry currently supports more than 302,000 jobs, 38% of which are in Scotland.

* Ports in Scotland directly employ 14,800 people.

* Ports generate £1.9 billion gross value added (GVA) direct contribution to Scottish GDP and this contributes nearly £630 million in taxes

* In the wider maritime sector it £4.3 billion gross (GVA) direct contribution to Scottish GDP

* 2016 was the seventh successive record breaking cruise season for Scottish ports. There were 676 cruise ships that visited Scottish ports in 2016, up 35% on 2015. Passenger numbers also increased, with over 484,000 passengers disembarking.

* The fishing industry in Scotland is also by far the largest in the UK. Landings at just three ports (Peterhead, Lerwick, and Fraserburgh) account for just over 50% of all landings by UK vessels and 37% of the total value of the UK catch.

* Spending directly on Scottish Ports by the Scottish Government was £180 million in the last year - that's not including improvements in road and rail links to ports or other private investment

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[git-intae-thum]

4 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

Yes, we're all well aware of this issue. I brought this up with a few yoon MPs a while back who were giving the "4x larger market" shite. When I asked them what those figures would look like if all Scottish exports left Scottish ports instead of English ports, they couldn't give any proper response.

Export Statistics Scotland is the Scotgov agency keeping tabs on this

In theory all produce originating in Scotland that is exported through rUK ports is meant to be recorded towards the Scottish BofP.

In practice as we are all one nation their is no regulations which demand that correct point of origin is recorded. It is a voluntary thing based on survey return. Not high on the list of priorities for most exporting companies. 

ESS have a tough job.

The figures produced are therefore a GERSlike guestimate. Familiar story.

What ESS does state is:

"The ESS estimates only capture the first point of export. This means if a good is exported to a company in the rest of the UK and that company then exports it somewhere else, ESS will only capture the export to the rest of the UK."

 

Its obvious the whole 4 x the trade argument is nonsense.

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by git-intae-thum

[Baxter Parp]

'Rank hypocrisy' – £120k spent on David Mundell's foreign trips

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17568011.rank-hypocrisy-120k-spent-on-david-mundells-foreign-trips/

Fucking obvious, innit.

[Coldo]

19 hours ago, sjc said:

Carriage is usually passed on to the buyer.

 

[welshbairn]

If there ever was a reason for independence..

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/12/court-rules-locking-out-glasgow-refugees-from-their-homes-was-lawful

[Jimbo Jagsfan]

Sarah Smith from the BBC was in Largs today, interviewing locals about the Community Garden at the Railway Station.

She then proceeded to ask my missus (and others) about Independence and Brexit. This interview is scheduled to go out on Wednesday, as (apparently):

Nicola is going to make an announcement about Indyref 2 on Tuesday!

You heard it here first.

[Londonwell]

25 minutes ago, Jimbo Jagsfan said:

Sarah Smith from the BBC was in Largs today, interviewing locals about the Community Garden at the Railway Station.

She then proceeded to ask my missus (and others) about Independence and Brexit. This interview is scheduled to go out on Wednesday, as (apparently):

Nicola is going to make an announcement about Indyref 2 on Tuesday!

You heard it here first.

Sturgeon said she would make an announcement when parliament resumed after the Easter recess, that's next week. So aye, decent bet it's Tuesday or Wednesday; regardless it will presumably be in advance of conference anyway.  

Edited April 18, 2019 by Londonwell

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Sarah Smith from the BBC was in Largs today, interviewing locals about the Community Garden at the Railway Station. She then proceeded to ask my missus (and others) about Independence and Brexit. This interview is scheduled to go out on Wednesday, as (apparently):

Nicola is going to make an announcement about Indyref 2 on Tuesday!

You heard it here first.

 

It doubt very much it will be IndyRef2 getting called - Brexit needs to be played out first and given that is her and the SNP's strategy I can't see it being any different. 

I suspect it will be a back the SNP message to pro Europeans for the Euro elections.

 

 

 

[Londonwell]

4 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

It doubt very much it will be IndyRef2 getting called - Brexit needs to be played out first and given that is her and the SNP's strategy I can't see it being any different. 

I suspect it will be a back the SNP message to pro Europeans for the Euro elections.

 

 

 

Think she needs to be a bit stronger than that. The grass roots are getting restless, there's a small storm brewing over the currency motion and she has teed people up with recent statements.

It may not be cut and dried Indy Ref 2 date but it will be enough to give the impatient something to cling onto. 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Londonwell

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I can see a split amongst the SNP, quite a lot of members and MSP’s getting worked up by the idiot over bath judgement and some comments from NS on trans rights. It seems there is a significant minority of absolute zoomers and bigots amongst the number.
The guy Campbell is an absolute man child who blocked me on twitter for calling out him abusing a child on twitter and has a wee clique who thinks everything he says is gospel. There appears to be an absolute lunatic fringe emerging similar to the ‘in the name of jesus’ types in the yoon camp. Perhaps a split would encourage the zoomers to go and form their own party and leave the adults to run the country and know they can rely on the zoomers to vote yes in an indyref.

[BawWatchin]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I can see a split amongst the SNP, quite a lot of members and MSP’s getting worked up by the idiot over bath judgement and some comments from NS on trans rights. It seems there is a significant minority of absolute zoomers and bigots amongst the number.
The guy Campbell is an absolute man child who blocked me on twitter for calling out him abusing a child on twitter and has a wee clique who thinks everything he says is gospel. There appears to be an absolute lunatic fringe emerging similar to the ‘in the name of jesus’ types in the yoon camp. Perhaps a split would encourage the zoomers to go and form their own party and leave the adults to run the country and know they can rely on the zoomers to vote yes in an indyref.

If a "significant minory" go off and start another party, it would be disastrous for the SNP and any hope of another independence referendum with the FPTP system in place.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I can see a split amongst the SNP, quite a lot of members and MSP’s getting worked up by the idiot over bath judgement and some comments from NS on trans rights. It seems there is a significant minority of absolute zoomers and bigots amongst the number.
The guy Campbell is an absolute man child who blocked me on twitter for calling out him abusing a child on twitter and has a wee clique who thinks everything he says is gospel. There appears to be an absolute lunatic fringe emerging similar to the ‘in the name of jesus’ types in the yoon camp. Perhaps a split would encourage the zoomers to go and form their own party and leave the adults to run the country and know they can rely on the zoomers to vote yes in an indyref.

That's already what is happening. The Campbell/CyberNat faction are prominent on twitter and a strong online presence but they don't have any power within the party. They have zero influence on the timing of IndyRef2 and can't even get Sturgeon to turn up at their rallies.