UsedToGoToCentralPark Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Why are you so sure that with a campaign to come, experience of the last one, the clusterfuck of Brexit, and the fact that the Tories have blown a lot of their pro Union arguements out in their pursuit of a Hard Brexit that the referendum would return a no vote?What are the reasons why a 55/45 is insurnountable? Because all I can see is that the number of Yes voters will have increased and the only question is will it be by enough. Why wont it be enough?Too much change in a short time could be a bit put off for a lot of people.If the SNP are sitting around formulating actual policy around currency, transition, borders, EU membership, pensions, tax, lending, borrowing, etc then they could win if it makes sense.Despite Brexit pensions are safe, what would happen with your GBP Royal London pension under an indy Scotland?The above is just an example. I dont have any answers, it's not my job but the SNP has to come up with a credible plan for a proper ScExit for a chance of Yes. Get it wrong, give the rUK a chance to project fear everything and indy is gone forever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Feel free to address my other posts tooI will, straight after Indy2 is announced. Just gives a shout when it happens and will pop it in my diary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said: Too much change in a short time could be a bit put off for a lot of people. If the SNP are sitting around formulating actual policy around currency, transition, borders, EU membership, pensions, tax, lending, borrowing, etc then they could win if it makes sense. Despite Brexit pensions are safe, what would happen with your GBP Royal London pension under an indy Scotland? The above is just an example. I dont have any answers, it's not my job but the SNP has to come up with a credible plan for a proper ScExit for a chance of Yes. Get it wrong, give the rUK a chance to project fear everything and indy is gone forever. There's also the argument that Brexit has already happened, and it may be tricky for Scotland to join the EU as an independent member. The Spaniards for example are particularly wary of setting precedents of ease for breakaway nations so they could be the ones to pull the plug. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 It’s only anecdotal evidence, but from a No voters perspective there seems to be a much more sympathetic view on independence (within my own work and social circles) since the vote to leave the EU and how things have been handled since at WM. That Scotland will be dragged out against its wishes is very much a ‘change in circumstances’ that will only weaken the Unionist resolve for me. I’m not saying that they would all just switch to YES in a second Ref tomorrow, but an appreciation of the Independence viewpoint certainly seems to be growing in my experience. Travelling south with work it’s clear with most Brexit supporters (that I’ve recently had a short exchange with), that the future of Scotland plays no part in their considerations whatsoever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-vote-in-the-in-a-scottish-independence-referendum-if-held-now-ask#line Still a majority no. The public might think polls display public opinion, but it might be more likely they are intended to shape a standpoint. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blades Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-vote-in-the-in-a-scottish-independence-referendum-if-held-now-ask#lineStill a majority no.Is this an old link? Can’t see any 2019 data, tbf I’m on my phone & also IT stupid.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Lot of bull being spouted on this thread. The key issue here is a UK prime minister has taken it upon herself to deny our nation the process to democratically decide its own future. It is now clear this is not a temporary withdrawal of permission. This is permanent. Regardless of you having planned to vote yes or no....it is a democratic outrage and a step towards fascism. Some of the above crazies that are defending the UK govts position on this, just because they do not want indepenence need to have a look at themselves. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Lot of bull being spouted on this thread. The key issue here is a UK prime minister has taken it upon herself to deny our nation the process to democratically decide its own future. It is now clear this is not a temporary withdrawal of permission. This is permanent. Regardless of you having planned to vote yes or no....it is a democratic outrage and a step towards fascism. Some of the above crazies that are defending the UK govts position on this, just because they do not want indepenence need to have a look at themselves. The anti-independence brigade are and always have been fascists. To them, this is just the UK Government getting one over on the Scottish Government. It's a "win" to them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Loondave1 said: 1 hour ago, Antlion said: Bullshit. I doubt anyone here seriously believes you can read. Nae bother and thanks for your input. I'm right though. All you will see is no Indy2 announcement and more internal grumbling in the face painter division. Feel free to point out when this is wrong mate. Will it be them nats and their anti Westminster “grievance”, or will it indeed be grievance about those bloody Europeans? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I wonder how the average british nationalist would have reacted if the EU had denied them permission for their referendum The matter may well go through the courts.....national and international. The UK govt will lose.... and become even more of an international point and laugh job. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Has the Westminster government denied the Scottish Parliament the right to hold a referendum? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 hours ago, btb said: the wilful misinterpretation of Alex Salmond "once in a generation" comments Do elaborate, how has the phrase been misinterpreted? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, strichener said: Do elaborate, how has the phrase been misinterpreted? According to the Daily Telegraph (no friend of the SNP), Salmond stated:"In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, this is a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland." as he* pledged not to bring back another referendum if Scots choose to remain in the UK" (*my emphasis) This single remark by one politician has been seized upon by Unionists as meaning that the SNP are barred from proposing a 2nd referendum for an unspecified (but very long) amount of time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 According to the Daily Telegraph (no friend of the SNP), Salmond stated:"In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, this is a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland." as he* pledged not to bring back another referendum if Scots choose to remain in the UK" (*my emphasis) This single remark by one politician has been seized upon by Unionists as meaning that the SNP are barred from proposing a 2nd referendum for an unspecified (but very long) amount of time.See this was the issue. Back in 2014 some people voted against Independence because they didn't like Salmond. Let's rephrase this, people denied their country the opportunity to be fully in charge of its destiny for generations because they didn't like Salmond. Regardless of what you think about one man how dumb were these fuckers. Beggars belief 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said: According to the Daily Telegraph (no friend of the SNP), Salmond stated:"In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, this is a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland." as he* pledged not to bring back another referendum if Scots choose to remain in the UK" (*my emphasis) This single remark by one politician has been seized upon by Unionists as meaning that the SNP are barred from proposing a 2nd referendum for an unspecified (but very long) amount of time. Quote If we vote No, Scotland stands still. A once in a generation opportunity to follow a different path, and choose a new and better direction for our nation, is lost. Decisions about Scotland would remain in the hands of others. ISBN: 978-1-78412-068-9 Published by the Scottish Government, November 2013. So not only one man's opinion but also the official position of the Government. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedToGoToCentralPark Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Lot of bull being spouted on this thread. The key issue here is a UK prime minister has taken it upon herself to deny our nation the process to democratically decide its own future. It is now clear this is not a temporary withdrawal of permission. This is permanent. Regardless of you having planned to vote yes or no....it is a democratic outrage and a step towards fascism. Some of the above crazies that are defending the UK govts position on this, just because they do not want indepenence need to have a look at themselves.When did the prime minister refuse the request from the First Minister for a new indyref? I seem to have missed this headline news? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Material change. The Unionists are getting scared. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 When did the prime minister refuse the request from the First Minister for a new indyref? I seem to have missed this headline news?Didn’t this happen in early 2017, prior to the snap GE which saw the SNP lose more than a third of their MPs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Lot of bull being spouted on this thread. The key issue here is a UK prime minister has taken it upon herself to deny our nation the process to democratically decide its own future. It is now clear this is not a temporary withdrawal of permission. This is permanent. Regardless of you having planned to vote yes or no....it is a democratic outrage and a step towards fascism. Some of the above crazies that are defending the UK govts position on this, just because they do not want indepenence need to have a look at themselves.So hypothetically, if the people of Aberdeenshire or Cumbernauld or Orkney decided they’d like a referendum on independence in the future, would it be fascist of the Scottish government to deny them this right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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