When will indyref2 happen?

[AUFC90]

I'd rather have the Euro than our own currency. Unlike the Norwegians we wouldn't have to worry about our currency becoming too strong and harming exports.

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

Id be for using the Euro or our own currency.
If we dont vote for it now we deserve everything the tories throw at us. Its a democratic outrage if they reject our mandate to have a referendum.

We certainly can't use someone else's currency.

I'd much rather have a Scottish Pound initially than jump straight into the Euro (if that is even possible).

[AUFC90]

We certainly can't use someone else's currency.

I'd much rather have a Scottish Pound initially than jump straight into the Euro (if that is even possible).

Why not ?

[Suspect Device]

I'm more than happy to have our own currency and a Norway style relationship with the EU. To me, your own currency is one of the main points in being an independent nation.

 

[Londonwell]

16 minutes ago, harry94 said:

The problem I think as well is that only one side is really running a campaign when it comes to elections. 2017 was basically the Tories just running their own anti independence campaign and a lot of vote consolidating and doing OK because the opposition weren't really playing the same game.

Another Holyrood election is difficult as the way the parliament is structured means there's always the risk that weird arithmetic can skew it. I don't really see another route though as there's just not the power to do anything elsewhere. I think it is possible to win it decisively with the right campaign but the worry is still that it doesn't mean that Westminster has to do anything. It could be good ammunition down the line though.

 

I agree with you about the 2017 election. I think/hope the SNP has learned it’s leason from that.

In terms of a future election I was referring more to a snap UK election, that the SNP would run on an Indy manifesto.

[Donathan]

14 minutes ago, harry94 said:

The problem I think as well is that only one side is really running a campaign when it comes to elections. 2017 was basically the Tories just running their own anti independence campaign and a lot of vote consolidating and doing OK because the opposition weren't really playing the same game.

Another Holyrood election is difficult as the way the parliament is structured means there's always the risk that weird arithmetic can skew it. I don't really see another route though as there's just not the power to do anything elsewhere. I think it is possible to win it decisively with the right campaign but the worry is still that it doesn't mean that Westminster has to do anything. It could be good ammunition down the line though.

 

 

I think you'd see a lot of tactical voting on both sides of the fence (those who want indyref2 would achieve more independence supporting MSPs by voting Green on the list, whilst unionists would vote for whichever of the three unionist parties is best place to take their constituency) but I think Theresa May would find it very difficult to refuse a second referendum if yes parties end up with control over the Scottish parliament (no parties would need to gain 5 seats overall to swing the house)

 

I reckon what she'd do is refuse the section 30 order but then legislate within WM for a Scottish independence referendum such that Fluffy and his mates would be pulling the strings rather than than the Scottish parliament.

[yoda]

28 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

I'd rather have the Euro than our own currency. Unlike the Norwegians we wouldn't have to worry about our currency becoming too strong and harming exports.

The Euro would be a complete disaster for Scotland. It's a car-crash currency.

 

27 minutes ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said:

We certainly can't use someone else's currency.

Yes we can. Even Mervyn King has championed Scotland using sterling. It would make significantly more sense than using the Euro.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

We certainly can't use someone else's currency.

I'd much rather have a Scottish Pound initially than jump straight into the Euro (if that is even possible).

Its very much possible, not every EU state uses the euro.

[AUFC90]

Yes we can. Even Mervyn King has championed Scotland using sterling. It would make significantly more sense than using the Euro.

It's the car crash for low export southern European economies. For the likes of Germany, Netherlands.....not so much.

[git-intae-thum]

Using the pound always a non starter. That clusterfuck idea lost us the last indy ref.

In the short to medium term iScotland is going to have to borrow before we start seeing the savings we will make from leaving the basketcase UK start to flow in, and we have established a fiscal framework which proprly generates revenue from  our vast resource. For this to happen as painlessly as possible, we need the fiscal control levers over our own currency.

I do not think having the BoE as lender whilst we are in the middle of negotiation with their political masters is feasible. Recipe for being held to ransom.

We have had 4 and a half years to develop a plan. This has been wasted to  a large extent on Wilsons nonsensical growth commission.

Our own currency should have been launched (in theory) a long time ago,  backed up by sound reasoning and international economist academic opinion.

 This would have allowed the electorate time to get used to the idea and prevent the britnats again making hay on the subject....again

More importantly it would allow the markets and credit agencies time to exam the proposals and make suggestion.

[NotThePars]

I doubt the EU would seriously object to Scotland joining with any currency they wanted. They need some good news to offset all the death and reaction they’re allowing on their borders.

[yoda]

14 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

It's the car crash for low export southern European economies. For the likes of Germany, Netherlands.....not so much.

Yes, but Scotland isn't Germany nor is it the Netherlands. There's plenty of (well informed) takes out there from economists who argue that the Euro would actually be Scotland's worst option: mainly because, like Norway, the economy is susceptible to oil price shocks.

[AUFC90]

Yes, but Scotland isn't Germany nor is it the Netherlands. There's plenty of (well informed) takes out there from economists who argue that the Euro would actually be Scotland's worst option: mainly because, like Norway, the economy is susceptible to oil price shocks.

We're a high export economy though and we wouldn't have to worry about our currency becoming too strong due to oil. Main reason Norway didn't spend much of its oil money.

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

Its very much possible, not every EU state uses the euro.

That's not what I meant.

 

We need to have an independent currency. Not the euro and not something tied to the rUK pound.

 

Is it even possible was wrt going into the Euro on day 1.

 

[Dan Steele]

Surely an independent Scotland would use its own currency. Why use anything else? Set out as we mean to go on and with the belief Scotland and its own currency can stand proud on the world stage. Given the pathetic state of the UK government and the total mishandling of Brexit is there any way a second referendum will be anything less than an an overwhelming Yes? 

[tirso]

i think the currency question has to be put as sterling until something better.

feel the strangeness of a new currency is a campaign hurdle.

we reassured people last time.  Scots are a feart people.

[Donathan]

5 minutes ago, tirso said:

i think the currency question has to be put as sterling until something better.

feel the strangeness of a new currency is a campaign hurdle.

we reassured people last time.  Scots are a feart people.

 

But this is what was tried last time, the UK government said there would be no currency union, therefore Scotland would be looking at unilaterally using another nation's currency and thus having no say over monetary policy, seen as a major red flag.

 

I think an independent currency is probably the only option, because it's not immediately clear that an independent Scotland would even be in the EU (I'd anticipate a referendum after a successful yes vote, with the options being to either join the EU as a new member, or a Norway/Switzerland type approach)

[Dan Steele]

To use Sterling would be a sign of being feart. I'd argue for a new currency for a new country. There sure as hell is a load of material to use to make them think twice about staying with what is pretty much the failed state of UK.

[git-intae-thum]

4 minutes ago, tirso said:

i think the currency question has to be put as sterling until something better.

feel the strangeness of a new currency is a campaign hurdle.

we reassured people last time.  Scots are a feart people.

Wrong. It allows the rUK to dictate iScotlands monetary policy from day 1.

The correct course is to have the plans for a new currency fully established, fully critiqued by economic experts and placed in front of the electorate before day 1 of any new indy ref campaign. That way any nonsense spouted by the britnats can be crushed with solid academic evidence.

Keeping the pound was and is a loser.

 

[AUFC90]

i think the currency question has to be put as sterling until something better.
feel the strangeness of a new currency is a campaign hurdle.
we reassured people last time.  Scots are a feart people.

Stiglitz and other economists agreed, even the the UK government know this is the sensible option but the UK will just rule it out during the campaign and the same old arguements will be rehashed ad nauseam.