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When will indyref2 happen?


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Indyref2  

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1 hour ago, AUFC90 said:

The RAF delayed the invasion but if Hitler wasn't so stupid by opening up an Eastern Front they would have invaded at some point.

 

They would have had to get a move on because I don't think they would have tried it after the Yanks joined in.

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They would have had to get a move on because I don't think they would have tried it after the Yanks joined in.
Would the Yanks have joined in if the Germans weren't fighting on all fronts ? Normandy would have been a bloodbath for the allies if all the Germans strength was concentrated on the West.
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1 minute ago, AUFC90 said:
15 minutes ago, welshbairn said:
They would have had to get a move on because I don't think they would have tried it after the Yanks joined in.

Would the Yanks have joined in if the Germans weren't fighting on all fronts ? Normandy would have been a bloodbath for the allies if all the Germans strength was concentrated on the West.

Germany declared war on the US.

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Germany declared war on the US.
I know. Would they have invaded western europe if the full might of the German army was concentrated in it. I highly doubt. Tbf they would've probably ended nuking a random German city so would have won one way or another.
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11 hours ago, AUFC90 said:

The RAF delayed the invasion but if Hitler wasn't so stupid by opening up an Eastern Front they would have invaded at some point.

 

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. 

 

German would never have invaded without having Air and Naval superiority, something they never managed. 

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They could have invaded regardless. The British army was fucked after Dunkirk, most of its ships weren't in home waters and a proper invasion force wouldn't have been stopped by the RAF. Hitler postponed his invasion plans to pursue his long held obsession with invading the USSR which ultimately cost him the war. Like I said if he'd focused his attention on conquering all of Western Europe first things might have turned out differently but lucky for us he was tactically very stupid and overestimated the strength of his army on being able to fight on 2 fronts. Christ the Russians had all their manufacturing bases outwith Luftwaffe range and were literally churning out tanks and artillery like no one's business. It's a common view that the RAF prevented an invasion but it was Hitler's willingness to divert most of his resources eastward that prevented it.

 

 

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On 09/02/2019 at 20:17, SandyCromarty said:

I suggest you read the respected military historian Antony Beevor's book on WW2,  where you will soon realise that  the absolute destruction of the Nazi regime was down to the  Russian  offensive onslaught from late 1943 until they entered Berlin.

The Russians were the first into the heart of Nazism not the combined Allied armies on the western front, their ferocity once they entered Germany was in retaliation to the  to the scorched earth policy of the Nazi's on attacking Russia, the suicides of Hitler and Himmler was  the fear of ' Ivan ist kommen'. 

The British offensive from Normandy to Caen was severely  hampered by Montgomery's delaying indecisivenss and pomposity  which infuriated  Bradley his american counterpart whose american divisions surged ahead , his incompetence at this point was  glaringly obvious though the english MI5 spinners of the time and his use of the english press hid this, many are not aware that his victory over Rommel was accomplished  by  Free French troops, Indian Regiments, new Zealanders and South Africans though these are mostly ignored given rise to the propagrandist legend that only British troops were involved.

I do not in anyway take away from the absolute at times heroism of  british troops during the war, especially the 51st Highland Division, but it was a World War and to suggest and assume that England  was one of the primary players instead of being one nation  taking part reduces the participation of many other nations and partisans of those invaded countries.

As a BTW many present europeans are unaware that Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary were German mobilised armies, in fact even the SS were taken aback  by Romanian  atrocities in the Ukraine against the Jews.    

      

Not really, no.

I mean, that is a god awful take on the history. That Montgomery was a pompous jackass is neither here nor there, he and all his counterparts were vain egotists (well, the successful ones were). In a time of ruthless all out war, it's really only the personality type that could make it at the top. He was never indecisive though. Montgomery's plan in Normandy once his forces were ashore (and as the critical architect of history's largest amphibious landing, it's hard to point to incompetence) was for the US forces in the west to expand and get first Cherbourg and the Britany ports, while the British army took control of Caen and the lateral road network and engage the bulk of the German army to prevent it interfering with the US army in the west. That was the correct division of labour, logistically and militarily.

The British army was by this stage of the war entirely crippled by manpower shortage, and replacements would no longer keep pace with losses after about July. It therefore made sense for the British to engage the Germans on terms that allowed them to dominate without having to take geographical objectives that would've meant continuing offensives even as the casualties mounted up. Montgomery's plan, to pull the Germans onto the British in the East and allowing the US to expand in the west was the key point in all the pre-Overlord briefings. He had intended to do it around Falaise after taking Caen, but the German resistance around Caen prevented such an expansion. Montgomery probably could've forced his way into Caen earlier than he did, and it might have been better for his own reputation if he had, but his over riding priority was to avoid breaking the British army. The plan worked as well, by the time Bradley was ready to push south of Carentan,  two thirds of the German armour was in the East south of Caen, and only a brittle crust south of his own troops that quickly collapsed. It should be noted that this was Bradley's second attempt to break out of the bocage country, and his failure at the first attempt forced Montgomery to ask Dempsey to undertake another offensive around Caen to keep the Germans locked in the East: The ever controversial Goodwood offensive, a poor plan that nevertheless allowed the British to avoid infantry casualties. 

Bradley wasn't Montgomery's counterpart, he was, at least for the Normandy battle, his subordinate. Even after he became venomously bitter to Montgomery after the latter humiliated him over the Ardennes he maintained that Montgomery's plan in Normandy had worked. The whole US army saved everyone's bacon when the British failed at Caen narrative was largely an invention from several very pissed off authors, including Bradely's former intelligence officer, that bore no resemblance to the primary sources. Even Eisenhower - Montgomery's superior and Supreme Allied Commander, long after Montgomery had pushed their relationship long past breaking point admitted that "It was his kind of battle, whatever else they say about him, he got us there".

 

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What FM said...

Scotland would be independent in the “not too distant future”.

Asked if she believed Scotland would be applying to the European Union as an independent nation in the next three to five years, she replied: “I would love to think so and I think it will.

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“Banging the drum of independence”.

Read that in the Scotsman’s column re Sturgeon’s visit to the US. She was asked the question on independence and possible application for EU membership. Why do the Britnats not understand she was answering a question and not using the CNN interview as a platform to rouse support for independence?

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9 minutes ago, DAFC. said:

“Banging the drum of independence”.

Read that in the Scotsman’s column re Sturgeon’s visit to the US. She was asked the question on independence and possible application for EU membership. Why do the Britnats not understand she was answering a question and not using the CNN interview as a platform to rouse support for independence?

They understand it perfectly well but as usual twist it.

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