When will indyref2 happen?

[NotThePars]

15 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Next referendum campaign.

 

 

"Many will question whether Sturgeon's strategy of calling everyone positioned opposite of her "a nonce" was in good taste but nobody can argue with results."

Edited January 22, 2019 by NotThePars

[BawWatchin]

[DeeTillEhDeh]

As a Green, I think it matters little to those who are at that level of opposition to independence who is the face of the movement. Last door chapping I did we sometimes got "I like you but you're pro indy so no". A politically neutral Yes Scotland will run into that issue whatever.

I think in 2014 it was a mistake to distance the SNP from Yes Scotland, because it robbed them of effective campaign staff. I remember a lot of "where are they, what are they doing?" and "nice guys, no idea" from SNP folk last time. I think the benefit of just going f**k it and making it an SNP thing outweigh the 56 extra votes getting Malcolm Chisholm up on stage will bring.

The difference might be someone of higher stature from the other political parties - get a Henry McLeish and there might be a chance.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The Yes campaign should not play fair. f**k morals. If you aren't in it to win then you're utterly useless. Yes should do whatever it takes to get the job done. Prey on the fears of the idiots and anger of the idiots. Lie through the teeth and make headlines. We've seen enough to know that's what it takes. If they aren't willing to do what it takes, then what's the point?

Play dirty but don't lie - expose the lies of BT and the self-interested hypocrisy of those politicians or business people who heavily back No.  

 

 

The unionists have always made this about personal politics - the attacks on Salmond and Sturgeon.

 

Yes should do exactly the same and go for the jugular.

 

 

 

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Next referendum campaign.


 

Agreed.

Go for the b*****ds - make it personal.

[Bairnardo]

Theres a wee intangible in Scotland IMO. Not neccesarily a socialist country ny any means but theres just something... A wee moral code punctuated by things like Nae Pasaran... The hate for the Tories because of the miners strike runs through generations who werent even born. Thats something that needs to be appealed to IMO. I think Scots are a people who are keen on the right thing, so as in the pictures above, more needs to be made of the things that happen with British complicity, arms to Saudi that sort of thing.

Fight dirty against the things done in our name. The things some folk might be oblivious to.

[Billy Rubin]

There isn't going to be any referendums in the UK/Scotland over the next 20 years.   The UK Gov just wont allow it. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

On the subject of what type of campaign should be run, its got to be a mix, hopeful but short sharp injections of the lies of the last campaign. It won’t be won on twitter, need billboards, adverts etc, the people who we need to target don’t read twitter.

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

It won’t be won.

FTFY

[Detournement]

35 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

 

I think tory bashing has its place but lets remember Ravenscraig elected a tory councillor at the last elex so it has a shelf life.

 

God botherers, loyalist bams, unionist pensioners and some middle class wanks scratched together 1000 votes for 22% of the total votes.

 

[Billy Rubin]

22 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

On the subject of what type of campaign should be run, its got to be a mix, hopeful but short sharp injections of the lies of the last campaign. It won’t be won on twitter, need billboards adverts etc, the people who we need to target don’t read twitter.

Something the Yes camp did excellently the first time round.  

[JamieThomas]

7 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

What kind of lies could we possibly make up that would help us any further?

Any lies would have to be negative.

The general electorate, as we have seen time and again, are barely sentient mouthbreathers. Tell them spaghetti hoops and tv phone in votes will be outlawed or some shit and watch them come running.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

On the subject of what type of campaign should be run, its got to be a mix, hopeful but short sharp injections of the lies of the last campaign. It won’t be won on twitter, need billboards, adverts etc, the people who we need to target don’t read twitter.

 

There's a lot being made of how many boots on the ground that Labour, and Momentum in particular, are organising on a permanent election footing. That sort of thing needs to be developed up here even before an official campaign begins. Speaking of my time in both parties, it was Slab that were much more active at involving their members in all the processes of the party and trying to do public shit. The SNP have a far bigger member base and are much better organised so I don't know why they aren't utilising that more. That could just be relevant to Glasgow though as that's where I was (trying) to be active.

1 minute ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

Scotland, and particularly Glasgow, which is largely the same thing, has had a century of left-wing hegemony in the sense that this is the way the country is conceptualised. In due course the 2014 referendum will be spoken about in the same tradition as Mary Barbour, the battle of George Square, the UCS work-in and the poll-tax non-payment campaign. It's not so much that people still remember the miners strike - to have memories of it as an adult you have to be in your mid-50s at this point - but the way in which history and culture are used and created has been done in a very political manner. Assuming the independence campaign sticks to its left wing principles, it fits very well into this story and tradition. However you can't just weave that tapestry overnight - it's an organic process that happens very slowly and in a piecemeal fashion until suddenly everything seems extremely clear in retrospect.

My touchstone is always the original devolution campaign - it took 18 years between 79 and 97 to go from defeat on a technicality to overwhelming victory, in a campaign where arguably politicians were playing catch up to the general culture. Even allowing for the chaotic nature of modern politics and the huge incoming crisis/opportunity of Brexit, it's broadly always been my view that we need at least as big a cultural shift before independence is likely.

Politics is all about the story you tell and the Scottish pro-independence left has a good one with storied history and a coherent offer, but it doesn't coalesce overnight because politicians aren't *really* in control of it. Brexit provides an opportunity because it offers a potential rupture where a sudden shift allows a new story to be told - if all of a sudden there are food shortages and traffic jams, and independence campaigners can sieze the narrative to say that this means we should be independent, that may be a pivotal point. The Shock Doctrine, effectively - but for good instead of evil.

 

Aye. Essentially taking the vision that already existed in 2014 but pointing at Brexit and dispelling the myth that choosing the left wing vision means taking the economically reckless "utopian" decision.

Edited January 22, 2019 by NotThePars

[BawWatchin]

27 minutes ago, JamieThomas said:

The general electorate, as we have seen time and again, are barely sentient mouthbreathers. Tell them spaghetti hoops and tv phone in votes will be outlawed or some shit and watch them come running.

Nah, that won't work. The "Blethers Together" campaign will tell them that residents of an independent Scotland will no longer be able to vote on the X Factor. Pure anarchy will ensue.

Edited January 22, 2019 by BawWatchin

[Gaz FFC]

7 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

What kind of lies could we possibly make up that would help us any further?

Any lies would have to be negative.

The state pension will be £300P/W

Minimum wage of £10 per hour

Cap utility bills at £40 per month

Free public transport

Write it on the side of a bus. That seems to work

[BawWatchin]

1 minute ago, Gaz FFC said:

The state pension will be £300P/W

Minimum wage of £10 per hour

Cap utility bills at £40 per month

Free public transport

Write it on the side of a bus. That seems to work

I said lies. Not things that are actually possible to achieve.

[NotThePars]

5 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Something I heard was old guard pre 2014 SNP local members are a bit bolshy about post 2014 members and this friction puts off new members and turns them into paper members. Pay the sub but no shoe leather offered.

 

Could believe that. There's only one kind of bolshy we need though.

 

 

[NotThePars]

Ah, the Sillars of the movement. 

 

ETA: nah that's clearly Trotsky isn't it?

Edited January 22, 2019 by NotThePars

[DA Baracus]

Russia will invade if we don't vote Yes

[JamieThomas]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

Russia will invade if we don't vote Yes

If there's another referendum, I'd kind of be expecting Putin and the lads to be giving us hauners tbh.