When will indyref2 happen?

[BawWatchin]

4 hours ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

I do not doubt that. But will that transfer into a majority for independence in any referendum? It didn't the last time.

So you don't doubt that these parties work collectively to sell Scotland down the river, but you'll still back one of them?

[BawWatchin]

2 hours ago, tirso said:

The Union deserved to be given time to deliver for Scotland.

Well it has had 312 years to deliver for Scotland..... so what's a few more eh?

[tirso]

3 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Well it has had 312 years to deliver for Scotland..... so what's a few more eh?

It was given a mandate in the biggest political engagement we've ever had.  Britain is going in a different direction to that vote and that's why the question needs asked again.

It mattered more to me in 2014 that the people were asked than the actual result and I feel the same way now.  The only people supporting the Union or holding Scotland back from being an independent country are our own people.  I just want them to be given the choice again and I think most of them do too. 

[BawWatchin]

2 minutes ago, tirso said:

It was given a mandate in the biggest political engagement we've ever had.  Britain is going in a different direction to that vote and that's why the question needs asked again.

It mattered more to me in 2014 that the people were asked than the actual result and I feel the same way now.  The only people supporting the Union or holding Scotland back from being an independent country are our own people.  I just want them to be given the choice again and I think most of them do too. 

Our own people, combined with very wealthy southerners who can purchase property and land up here and get their vote, despite never actually living up here.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

2 hours ago, dirty dingus said:

I don't think it is impatient to call it now as Westminster and May are going to say bolt. Then we can use a bit of grievance politics as the clusterfuck of Brexit takes hold to convince the soft No's then really push for a will of the people to get the referendum done. Also the heads gone loony yoons reaction will be grand.

I think it's been proven over the last 4 years that the 'grievance politic' tactic doesn't work.

Views on independence are entrenched, and no amount of uber right-wing Tory governments, or Brexit hardship, or Boris Johnston, or pretty much anything is going to sway a large amount of people towards Yes.

I think that people have to get away from the idea that there's some kind of magic independence bullet that'll tip 'soft No voters' into supporting the cause.

In fact, I would suggest that there's hardly such a thing as a 'soft no voter' these days....almost everyone has made their mind up on independence one way or another, and nothing, not even a nuclear winter, is going to shift these views.

The fact is, there's no real appetite in the country for a 2nd independence referendum at this point in time, or probably within the next 5 years. If the SNP try to force one on the country, I fear that they'll be heavily punished.

We just have to accept that, and wait our time.

 

[BawWatchin]

2 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I think it's been proven over the last 4 years that the 'grievance politic' tactic doesn't work.

Views on independence are entrenched, and no amount of uber right-wing Tory governments, or Brexit hardship, or Boris Johnston, or pretty much anything is going to sway a large amount of people towards Yes.

I think that people have to get away from the idea that there's some kind of magic independence bullet that'll tip 'soft No voters' into supporting the cause.

In fact, I would suggest that there's hardly such a thing as a 'soft no voter' these days....almost everyone has made their mind up on independence one way or another, and nothing, not even a nuclear winter, is going to shift these views.

The fact is, there's no real appetite in the country for a 2nd independence referendum at this point in time, or probably within the next 5 years. If the SNP try to force one on the country, I fear that they'll be heavily punished.

We just have to accept that, and wait our time.

 

Well if there's no appetite as you say, then the Scottish Parliament will be in no position to vote one through.......

[Colkitto]

The day Nicola asks officially for a Section 30 order Scotland will never be the same again. 

When the UK government refuses to transfer the Section 30 powers, that is the day Scotland officially stops being a partner in the UK and becomes a colony of England.

How the people of Scotland react to that situation remains to be seen

[Gaz FFC]

13 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I think it's been proven over the last 4 years that the 'grievance politic' tactic doesn't work.

Views on independence are entrenched, and no amount of uber right-wing Tory governments, or Brexit hardship, or Boris Johnston, or pretty much anything is going to sway a large amount of people towards Yes.

I think that people have to get away from the idea that there's some kind of magic independence bullet that'll tip 'soft No voters' into supporting the cause.

In fact, I would suggest that there's hardly such a thing as a 'soft no voter' these days....almost everyone has made their mind up on independence one way or another, and nothing, not even a nuclear winter, is going to shift these views.

The fact is, there's no real appetite in the country for a 2nd independence referendum at this point in time, or probably within the next 5 years. If the SNP try to force one on the country, I fear that they'll be heavily punished.

We just have to accept that, and wait our time.

 

Yeah....Let's wait through another couple of winters killing more of those no voting pensioners. Excellent tactics my good man.

[Gaz FFC]

It's actually quite pitiful how so many Scots can't cut the apron strings and move out of mommies house.

Sooking on the English boaby and regularly bending over to receive 1 for the team is not what I thought Scotland stood for.

Fucking embarrassing the way Scots are so fucking pitiful and subservient

Edited January 21, 2019 by Gaz FFC

[ford prefect]

It's actually quite pitiful how so many Scots can't cut the apron strings and move out of mommies house.
Sooking on the English boaby and regularly bending over to receive 1 for the team is not what I thought Scotland for.
Fucking embarrassing the way Scots are so fucking pitiful and subservient

Absolutely. As an Irish guy said to me in October 2014. "All you had to do was put a fucking cross in a box, our people had to die to achieve it" I'll never understand why people don't want to be in charge of our own affairs

[NotThePars]

Convincing soft No voters voters might not be necessary if Brexit is shite enough that it just puts people off making the effort to “save the union”.

[ArabianKnight]

58 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Convincing soft No voters voters might not be necessary if Brexit is shite enough that it just puts people off making the effort to “save the union”.

I actually think that may be closer to the truth than anything come Indy Ref 2.

The entrenchment of views may not have shifted much but commitment to those views may be lacking on one side. 

It's not that the soft nos will GOTV in support of the union, more that they will sit at home and not bother. 

 

[Colkitto]

Blackford going on a small rant in the Commons about Scotland going on it's own if dragged out the EU against our will.

Lot of frustration on social media in basically saying, well get on with it then! 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Why is there so much impatience from some within the Yes camp just now regarding IndyRef2?
I could understand if the polls had dramatically moved, but they haven’t, and the Brexit shitshow is still playing out
Why are some so keen to shoot their bolt?

We are not far from Brexit being finalised - it seems clear that unless the two clowns on the Government and opposition front benches have a significant change in attitude then we will have a shite Brexit deal - IndyRef2 would be the only option in that case.

[Londonwell]

2 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

Blackford going on a small rant in the Commons about Scotland going on it's own if dragged out the EU against our will.

Lot of frustration on social media in basically saying, well get on with it then! 

It ain't down to Blackford to ask for a section 30 unfortunately and it ain't down to Sturgeon to grant one, even more unfortunately.   

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I think it's been proven over the last 4 years that the 'grievance politic' tactic doesn't work.
Views on independence are entrenched, and no amount of uber right-wing Tory governments, or Brexit hardship, or Boris Johnston, or pretty much anything is going to sway a large amount of people towards Yes.
I think that people have to get away from the idea that there's some kind of magic independence bullet that'll tip 'soft No voters' into supporting the cause.
In fact, I would suggest that there's hardly such a thing as a 'soft no voter' these days....almost everyone has made their mind up on independence one way or another, and nothing, not even a nuclear winter, is going to shift these views.
The fact is, there's no real appetite in the country for a 2nd independence referendum at this point in time, or probably within the next 5 years. If the SNP try to force one on the country, I fear that they'll be heavily punished.
We just have to accept that, and wait our time.
 

Views change - just look at the shift over the EU referendum vote.

I still think that the No vote is soft - under severe campaigning it hemorrhaged votes last time round.

Also 5 years will also have meant, quite bluntly, more dead No voters.

[Londonwell]

1 hour ago, Colkitto said:

The day Nicola asks officially for a Section 30 order Scotland will never be the same again. 

When the UK government refuses to transfer the Section 30 powers, that is the day Scotland officially stops being a partner in the UK and becomes a colony of England.

How the people of Scotland react to that situation remains to be seen

This already happened though.

[dirty dingus]

5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Views change - just look at the shift over the EU referendum vote.

I still think that the No vote is soft - under severe campaigning it hemorrhaged votes last time round.

Also 5 years will also have meant, quite bluntly, more dead No voters.

Loads of English folk in Scotland seem to be coming on board. If the Europeans get to vote too at  minimum a reversal of  the 55-45 result.

Edited January 21, 2019 by dirty dingus

[John Lambies Doos]

The indyref now lot are getting impatient because Sturgeon is being coy about her strategy.

That is because her strategy is to wait for a hard brexit to damage the livelihoods of enough people that she can win it comfortably, which for obvious reasons she cannot just out and say so.

We will still vote no, it's called Stockholm syndrome..... Look it up.

[I'm Brian]

1 hour ago, dirty dingus said:

Loads of English folk in Scotland seem to be coming on board. If the Europeans get to vote too at  minimum a reversal of  the 55-45 result.

Even if they don't get the vote it's a couple of percent off the 55% without even kicking a ball