Benjamin_Nevis Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: It's scary how quickly the project fear campaign has kicked in all over the UK mainstream media. Someone pointed it out earlier but it's a bizarre situation to find ourselves in, if only we had a neutral Scottish channel that gave the country information and stories. A proper informative debate based on proper facts and figures would make for a pretty enjoyable experience in my opinion. I'd also be a lot happier, infact perfectly content with the outcome, regardless of whether my side won or not. When the facts and figures presented by the MSM are skewed to suit the Unionist argument (let's face it that's what happens) it makes it tough to take. Fighting an uphill battle and I think that's a good thing and a bad thing, it's made the Yes side more resilient in my opinion. Bad side is that it also obviously make the task of winning people over so much harder. My grandparents, both No in the last campaign, now passed away sadly, would not listen to a single word I had to say to them, basically because I wasn't a MSM source. Telegraph = gospel. Everyone else = talking out their arse. Since 12 noon today it has really hit home once again at how hard a task this is going to be for YES. Frustrating. Pretty much my thoughts tbh. A date hasn't even been announced yet and we've already had shite about terrorists getting into Scotland, unusually high media interest in the oil industry and a whole host of other shite. I'm just going to enjoy the absolute scenes over the next 18 months or so and hope for the best. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Project Fear is a well you can only go back to so many times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefan27 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Just got this email from Labour asking for donations to fund the anti-indy fight. Jumping a little too firmly on the unionist bandwagon here... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Can someone more knowledgeable than me tell me what would happrn if May stopped us having the referendum? Is there no other way around it or to appeal it if she says no? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 She won't block it because it'd be the surefire way to kill the union. So I hope she does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloop John B Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) My folks all voted no and if anything they seem more determined to stay the same. Their seethe was delicious but the Yes campaign needs to have an EU and Economic plan nailed down to have any chance. The people with the emotional and left wing argument have already been won over, now it needs to swing more people in the middle and have the mature argument whilst the Unionist parties are all at each others throats and a load of the previous arguments just aren't there anymore. Edited March 13, 2017 by Sloop John B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 minute ago, TheGoon said: Can someone more knowledgeable than me tell me what would happrn if May stopped us having the referendum? Is there no other way around it or to appeal it if she says no? Unprecedented Political and constitutional SCENES imo The SG would hold one anyway. The FM is asking for it's result to be legally binding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 17 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: It's scary how quickly the project fear campaign has kicked in all over the UK mainstream media. Someone pointed it out earlier but it's a bizarre situation to find ourselves in, if only we had a neutral Scottish channel that gave the country information and stories. A proper informative debate based on proper facts and figures would make for a pretty enjoyable experience in my opinion. I'd also be a lot happier, infact perfectly content with the outcome, regardless of whether my side won or not. When the facts and figures presented by the MSM are skewed to suit the Unionist argument (let's face it that's what happens) it makes it tough to take. Fighting an uphill battle and I think that's a good thing and a bad thing, it's made the Yes side more resilient in my opinion. Bad side is that it also obviously make the task of winning people over so much harder. My grandparents, both No in the last campaign, now passed away sadly, would not listen to a single word I had to say to them, basically because I wasn't a MSM source. Telegraph = gospel. Everyone else = talking out their arse. Since 12 noon today it has really hit home once again at how hard a task this is going to be for YES. Frustrating. My gran was/is a firm NO too, most of the family voted yes but she was so stubborn. She was convinced she'd need a visa to get to England if we went Independent, now ironically she may need a visa to go anywhere in Europe. The thing is though age is on the YES campaigns side. There will be a shit load of youngsters able to vote the next time that weren't able to do so in the last one, going by the polls the heavy majority is with the YES side in young polling, there will be NO voters like your Grandparents (RIP) that have passed. Add in the EU nationals who will surely vote YES, and the recent polls. If the SNP/YES campaign get the currency and EU situations sorted right away its nailed on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 The Eurocrats would not like that phrase. [emoji6] Scotland would be able to close certain chapters of the acquis quicker than the other applicants. I just hope that the SNP don't go back to peddling Salmond's White Paper myth that Scotland can join or stay in the EU on Independence Day. With all due respect Brexit has been a game changer - not just in terms of this referendum - but also the reality that there has been a definite shift in opinion within the rest of the EU towards a potential Scottish application for EU membership. I think it's pretty clear that an application from Scotland with the UK outside the EU is essentially less of a threat to members such as Spain than the situation last time round where an independence vote within the EU would set a precedent for the likes of Catalonia. My own view is that an application would be viewed favourably by EU members, especially after losing (or about to lose) one of the big countries. Given past experience it would not surprise me if there were some sort of fudge in place that would effectively mean the benefits of EU membership (without actual full membership) until an application was finally approved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Best Wishes Kez 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 The nuclear option for No would be refusing to participate in an advisory referendum, i.e. one not sanctioned by Westminster. Not sure how likely this is but, it will be interesting to see what happens when May and Fluffy do a bit more than just say, actually we don't want one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, Richie said: Bulgaria, Romania, Denmark, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary are all EU members who use their own domestic currency, so the assertion that it is a condition of entry is false. I think the terminology may be 'ready to adopt the Euro' but it doesn't quite make the jump to 'must adopt the Euro' Nobody is saying that joining the Eurozone is a condition of entry. Read the Commission's "Five Presidents" report on completing Economic & Monetary Union by 2025 - https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/5-presidents-report_en.pdf. The convergence process will be legally binding. Anyone who thinks that EU Member States (Denmark excepted) will be able to stay out of the Euro is deluded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I don't even know what the f**k I walked into in my own house, my dad was literally screaming abuse a Sturgeon on our telly for 5 minutes. Highlights include: "Ragged faced bitch" "Kill the cow" "I'd fucking leave Scotland to get away from her" "I'm ashamed of my country" Jesus f**k, this is the first time I've actually been disgusted at him, what grown man gets so worked up over a news report. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Why is every staunch Scot's born Brit on the TV interview circuit wearing tartan? Pure Scottish and that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Red Tory Gisela Stuart saying the Brexit vote was nationwide (so f**k Scotland) and the the UK shows that "supranational identities" can work (just not the EU) in the same breath. Fucking loon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 The nuclear option for No would be refusing to participate in an advisory referendum, i.e. one not sanctioned by Westminster. Not sure how likely this is but, it will be interesting to see what happens when May and Fluffy do a bit more than just say, actually we don't want one. They could say no to a referendum but it would be political suicide - they will try instead to rig the terms of any referendum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonnitus Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, dirty dingus said: Why is every staunch Scot's born Brit on the TV interview circuit wearing tartan? Pure Scottish and that? Costume not a culture 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, mizfit said: I don't even know what the f**k I walked into in my own house, my dad was literally screaming abuse a Sturgeon on our telly for 5 minutes. Highlights include: "Ragged faced bitch" "Kill the cow" "I'd fucking leave Scotland to get away from her" "I'm ashamed of my country" Jesus f**k, this is the first time I've actually been disgusted at him, what grown man gets so worked up over a news report. He should be ashamed of his country. It voted to be a minor part of another one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Dave Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 What about a third option? Complete independence, from the UK and EU? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: With all due respect Brexit has been a game changer - not just in terms of this referendum - but also the reality that there has been a definite shift in opinion within the rest of the EU towards a potential Scottish application for EU membership. I think it's pretty clear that an application from Scotland with the UK outside the EU is essentially less of a threat to members such as Spain than the situation last time round where an independence vote within the EU would set a precedent for the likes of Catalonia. My own view is that an application would be viewed favourably by EU members, especially after losing (or about to lose) one of the big countries. Given past experience it would not surprise me if there were some sort of fudge in place that would effectively mean the benefits of EU membership (without actual full membership) until an application was finally approved. I tend to agree but such a "fudge" is currently not possible under the EU Treaties. Sturgeon's recent Brexit paper focused on Scotland staying in the Single Market. A more likely scenario is that an independent Scotland could use the Norwegian model as an interim solution. Norway is in the EEA, with freedom of movement, but it has retained the right to negotiate trade countries with other countries. Scotland should do likewise and stay out of the protectionist customs union. Any proposal to join the EEA or EU should be put to the Scottish people in a separate referendum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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